Foreign Legion in the Sahara

[fernando]

Jom, does le Lebel also resemble the author's described design ?


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[Jim McDougall]

Exactly what I have been hoping for, analysis of the bayonets used by the Foreign Legion in Algeria in 1867-85, as per my views on the fictional setting for "Beau Geste" (publ.1924-26).
As I cited in the concurrent thread on European, on p. 20 of the novel,
"...lay the Commandant, and through his heart, a bayonet, one of our long, thin French SWORD BAYONETS with its single curved hilt".

In descriptions of the M1874 Gras bayonet, it is described as the last of the French SWORD BAYONETS, and was in use 1874 through c. 1889. (the preceding chassepot was a yataghan blade type sword bayonet).

While I am unsure of whether the Lebel was used in North Africa in the period suggested, it is well established the Gras 1874 was. The Lebel bayonet is termed of 'epee' type as the blade is of the section for thrusting as used in the epee of dueling style.

P.C.Wren was a vividly descriptive writer, and as a military man, seems to have a good command of military dialogue. While British, there are some ideas he may have at some point actually served in the Legion, but that is unconfirmed. In any case he did spend some time in North Africa.

[fernando]

In the movie ...


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[Jim McDougall]

Hard to tell by the scene, is this the 1926 film or the 1939? Whatever the case great close up, and sure looks like an epee blade. It seems often the case that movies dont follow the book, and as we have seen the books dont always follow the actual events, costume, arms etc. to the letter.
Interesting to see the kinds of weaponry used in the early film industry, for example in the Zorro movies they wanted to depict dueling with cup hilt rapiers but actually used period fencing sabers.
As the 'Rosalie' bayonets were easily available to the movie studios with all the surplus circulating, it makes sense.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hard to tell by the scene, is this the 1926 film or the 1939? .

1939 ... with Gary Cooper. The one they say that in equipment and scenes was a general good replica of the pretended period.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Jom, does le Lebel also resemble the author's described design ?


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Further researching, in the novel, as I noted Wren does use the term sword bayonet numerous times through the chapter where the body of the commandante has the bayonet sticking out of his chest.

Conan Doyle's 'Sherlock Holmes' is mentioned several times, this did not appear until 1887.

The automobile noted as a "Roland' would have been a Rolland-Pillain produced from 1905 and later.

The consolidation of Algeria began around 1890 to about 1914.

In "French Foreign Legion" by Martin Windrow (1971) p.38, Plate C3,
A legionaire c. 1905 is depicted with white kepi, blue tailed coat, and indeed the rifle in use was the 1886 LEBEL with EPEE pattern bayonet.
From these elements, I would say that the depiction of the Legionaires in "Beau Geste" was most probably of that 1905 period (pre WWI) as suggested and the bayonet in the 1939 movie scene is indeed correct.

Interesting exercise !!! and thank you for the assist with reference to the "Rosalie" bayonet and the good close up in the 1939 movie!
Resolved.

[fernando]

Dear Jim,

Now that the riddle is cracked, and if you allow me the diversion, here is a brief story on the "pre-history" of the discussed Legion Etrangere ...

" We can say that it is in some way recreated because it inherits the traditions of the old Legion": there was an Italic Legion, a Legion of the Franks of the North, a Polish Legion, a Portuguese Legion and an Irish Legion. In 1805 , heterogeneous foreign units will henceforth be created: the regiment of the Tour d'Auvergne, the regiment of Isembourg, the regiment of Prussia and the battalion of Ireland. They will become, in 1811, the first four foreign regiments. During the 'Cent-Jours', their number will be doubled. In 1815, these eight foreign regiments of the Grande Armée will form by royal order the Royal Foreign Legion.Then at the option of its dismemberment, in 1818, the Royal Legion becomes the Legion of Hohenhole before declining in 1821 to become the Hohenhole Regiment named after its leader, Prince Louis Aloy of Hohenhole-Waldenburg-Bartenstein, a French Marshal of Austrian nationality. This regiment was disbanded on January 5, 1831 but on March 10 of the same year a new royal ordinance brings the Foreign Legion back to life from its ashes to arm the African Army deployed in Algeria ".

Hereunder the front cover and one of the illustrations of my (massive) copy of the Portuguese Legion, created with the purpose to integrate La Grande Armee, one that Napoleon took up to the Russian campaign.


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[Jim McDougall]

Thank you for entering this, really does add interesting perspective to the entire Foreign Legion situation, and its great to know more on just how complex this area of military history really was.

[kronckew]

Let us not forget the Leal Legião Lusitana, Britain's 'Foreign Legion'.

The Loyal Lusitanian Legion (LLL) was a foreign volunteer corps of the British Army, organized with Portuguese émigrés in England, that fought in the Peninsular War. The LLL was created by the initiative of Portuguese Army Colonels José Maria Moura and Carlos Frederico Lecor – exiled in England after the occupation of Portugal by the Napoleonic Army – and the Portuguese Ambassador in London Chevalier de Sousa, with the support of the British government.

As a light infantry unit, the Loyal Lusitanian Legion received green uniforms similar to those of the British rifles regiments. Furthermore, green was the livery colour of the Portuguese Royal House of Braganza, to whom the Legion remained loyal. The Legião was disbanded as a British unit in 1811, and transferred back to the reorganized and highly competent Royal Portuguese Army that helped Wellington kick the French out of Portugal and Spain. See also the 'Battle of Buçaco ', one of the pivotal battles of the peninsular war where they supported Wellington as he retreated behind the famous 'Lines of Torres Vedras' where The French were ultimately defeated and forced out of Portugal and then Spain.

Nappy's Portuguese Legion was, of course, the enemy of the Brits and the legitimate Portuguese Govt., conscripted from the remnants of the defeated Portuguese Army. I don't suppose they cared much for sunny Moscow.

Lusitania (named after the Roman province in Western Europe, corresponding to modern Portugal) was also the name of a ship whose sinking by the Germans helped convince the USA to enter the 1st World War on the UK side. Worth mentioning again, England (UK) and Portugal have been allies continuously, without a break, since 1373; the world's oldest ongoing alliance.


Ref: Wikipedia, Buçaco (Bussaco) Military Museum

[midelburgo]

All this mess of recreating legions and legionaires actually started with Henri II Valois in 1558. They had a bad start at the battle of Gravelines.

[fernando]

Actually were the Romans that started it, before 107 BC .