Chinese sabre blade believed of late Ming dynasty with svastika markings

KuKulzA28 · 31st July 2009, 09:52 PM

Jim, you mention the americas....

I don't know if this'll be any help, but I'll give input and I hope it'll spark more discussion

A symbol for Hunab-Ku (pseudo-Mayan god) can be found and it seems like almost a svastika/ying-yang. The reason I say it is a pseudo-Mayan-god is because it does not seem to appear in the classic Mayan pantheon. It's origin may be from the efforts of Catholic missionaries in converting native people. Itzamna was similar to the descriptions of Hunab-Ku and it is believed that the missionaries sought to make conversion easier by taking an already revered and powerful god and morphing it into the all-mighty universal god for the Mayan converts. Of course I don't know much about Mayan religion...

However I used to be a voracious reader on anything Mayan. I am still very intrigued by their culture. My memory on them isn't the best right now since my main ethno-martial-historical interest is in S. China and the SE Asian archipegalo, I do remember a few things.... It seems Itzamna was known back in the Classic era when Yaxchilan, Tikal, Palenque, etc. were powerful and locked in deadly and highly organized political wars for dominance (prestige, trade routes, resources, sacrifices, manpower, etc.etc.)
However the Itza as a people seemed to have been invaders of some sort. The Itza came in with their vicious warfare, their bows and arrows, and their great skill with the atlatl and carved out their own kingdoms. This was a time when "Mexican" invaders were plunging into the Mayan heartland and setting up their own countries. It was during this time that Mayan cities began to exhibit more and more defensive earthworks and walls and their classic "killing alleys" (double wall areas). Warfare shifted from the seasonal campaigns and night-raids by spear, knife, club, and atlatl (hul'che) armed warriors and levies to proffessional and fierce warriors also armed with bow and arrow. Trade shifted from overland routes to the coast, and the lowlands ceased to be the major center of civilization. Rather, the north had powerful cities like Chichen Itza and Mayapan, and the far south in the mountains were Mexicanized kingdoms in constant rivalry. The populations of the lowlands in the middle died or dispersed and returned to the simple village life they had led before the first step-pyramid was made.
Perhaps Itzamna grew more powerful due to more intense worship by the Itza? Perhaps this is why he was a good candidate for the missionaries to morph into a Mayan Catholic God?

Don't take my word for it, like I said, I've forgotten a lot... or maybe it's just stored in my head somewhere

31st July 2009, 09:52 PM	#5
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Jim, you mention the americas.... I don't know if this'll be any help, but I'll give input and I hope it'll spark more discussion A symbol for Hunab-Ku (pseudo-Mayan god) can be found and it seems like almost a svastika/ying-yang. The reason I say it is a pseudo-Mayan-god is because it does not seem to appear in the classic Mayan pantheon. It's origin may be from the efforts of Catholic missionaries in converting native people. Itzamna was similar to the descriptions of Hunab-Ku and it is believed that the missionaries sought to make conversion easier by taking an already revered and powerful god and morphing it into the all-mighty universal god for the Mayan converts. Of course I don't know much about Mayan religion... However I used to be a voracious reader on anything Mayan. I am still very intrigued by their culture. My memory on them isn't the best right now since my main ethno-martial-historical interest is in S. China and the SE Asian archipegalo, I do remember a few things.... It seems Itzamna was known back in the Classic era when Yaxchilan, Tikal, Palenque, etc. were powerful and locked in deadly and highly organized political wars for dominance (prestige, trade routes, resources, sacrifices, manpower, etc.etc.) However the Itza as a people seemed to have been invaders of some sort. The Itza came in with their vicious warfare, their bows and arrows, and their great skill with the atlatl and carved out their own kingdoms. This was a time when "Mexican" invaders were plunging into the Mayan heartland and setting up their own countries. It was during this time that Mayan cities began to exhibit more and more defensive earthworks and walls and their classic "killing alleys" (double wall areas). Warfare shifted from the seasonal campaigns and night-raids by spear, knife, club, and atlatl (hul'che) armed warriors and levies to proffessional and fierce warriors also armed with bow and arrow. Trade shifted from overland routes to the coast, and the lowlands ceased to be the major center of civilization. Rather, the north had powerful cities like Chichen Itza and Mayapan, and the far south in the mountains were Mexicanized kingdoms in constant rivalry. The populations of the lowlands in the middle died or dispersed and returned to the simple village life they had led before the first step-pyramid was made. Perhaps Itzamna grew more powerful due to more intense worship by the Itza? Perhaps this is why he was a good candidate for the missionaries to morph into a Mayan Catholic God? Don't take my word for it, like I said, I've forgotten a lot... or maybe it's just stored in my head somewhere