Strange Saw Backed Hanger

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

...just to illustrate, here is a recent 'ethnic' machete of mine from a European manufacturer in Ghana which is obviously intended as a weapon, made by the British Machete Co. ...

Wayne, what is 'obvious' is that, if the item you are posting is as 'recent' as you assume, you will risk having its image wacked .

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

Wayne, what is 'obvious' is that, if the item you are posting is as 'recent' as you assume, you will risk having its image wacked .

Recent date of acquisition by me, Not of MFG. I've found mention of it in a late 19c newspaper advert, sans brass guard tho. BMC Ltd. appears to be out of business. It's African and ethnic in any case

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... It's African and ethnic in any case ...

African & ethnic is in the Ethno forum next door, Wayne; this is the Euro forum .

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

...
Of course; you wouldn't use a machete to cut potatoes for your stew .
...

You could with my machetes.
You also could with the Nepali 'machete' - the Khukuri.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DHGlhFJH0g
That is, as far as I know, A British made issue Gurkha regimental knife from the 19c.

Originally Posted by fernando

African & ethnic is in the Ethno forum next door, Wayne; this is the Euro forum .

I know, which is why I didn't discuss it here, just illustrating a weaponised one for those here who never visit the other place on the other side of the building.


A comment on my example in post no. 6, it's a rehilted 1830 British 'Pioneer' sword blade. "This is a rare to find 1830 Pattern British Pioneers Sawback Short Sword (blade). These weapons do not appear to have had any official designation and are the forerunner of the 1856 pattern Pioneer’s side arm".

[fernando]

Wayne, you have PM.

[Jim McDougall]

In hopes of finding our original topic, and looking more at the connection between the sawback of this interesting example hanger and other sawback weapons (Spanish and Prussian), we return to the British India potential.

The British M1856 pioneer sidearm as previously described was in use from that time and beyond the turn of the century, and may have parallels to this design.
It is known that Wilkinson was producing these as late as 1895, and I carefully note that these were in use later as seen in issue dates in early years of next century.

In 1870, a sword bayonet with bulbous blade and serrated saw back was proposed by Lord Elcho, a Scottish conservative noble and politician.
There was a number of these for experimental use produced by Kirshbaum, and a degree of issue, with the designation M1871 applied.
However, it was declared by the military that the new bayonets were too expensive, and they did not believe in the idea of a bayonet used as a tool and that the use for combat should be to the existing forms .

Here I would note that the existing pioneer sidearm, the likely comparison to this example, was issued to the 'pioneer' troops who were attached to infantry companies , were charged with utility duties and not necessarily combatants, though obviously could be if required.

The 'pioneer' sidearms with saw back as noted, were being made by Wilkinson, and Mole, who worked as sub contractor for them. The J. Bourne Co. was also a sub contractor for Wilkinson, and in particular swords going to India, as the one I posted earlier, show the similar feature of the stepped pommel.

It is noted in various references, the response to the saw tooth back, were as far as use in the sawing etc. very effective, so the pioneer sword clearly remained in use for so long. However, as far as the bayonet, which Burton vaguely referred to (1884), it seems deemed as useless with the saw back feature, as he derisively noted much in line with the military views earlier.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The British M1856 pioneer sidearm as previously described was in use from that time and beyond the turn of the century, and may have parallels to this design. It is known that Wilkinson was producing these as late as 1895, and I carefully note that these were in use later as seen in issue dates in early years of next century.

Hi Jim,
I have a P1856 dated by Wilkinson to 1 '00 i.e. Jan 1900 the time of manufacture. It is further marked as issued to a Regiment in May 1900 and reissued to another Regiment in Nov 1902, both times to the Infantry.
My Regards,
Norman.