Old Nimcha for Info and to share

Jim McDougall · 22nd February 2021, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

Thanks, Tvv for the encouragement in thinking the symbols have meaning.
Thank you Jim for Putting together all this great knowledge. I am still interested and researching these triple fuller blades seen as imports.

Jim, it is interesting u mentioned these symbols would appear on the local textiles, because in researching another African symbol I did find it in textiles .
these "Berber" symbols, I find in their Henna body paint, and i have found similarity to Voodoo Veves which I find interesting. particularly the marking on my swords scabbard,- I have so many interpretations I wouldn't know where to start. On my scabbards symbol, the borders are highlighted with border lines which I didn't include in my drawing depiction. after cleaning that piece the border lines around the bordering scroll symbols are more visible. These bordering scrolling symbols ,should also have symbolic name & meaning,(like snake skeleton etc..) like what Tvv said about the floral scrolling depictions.

also I noticed this much earlier & didnt pay it much notice, but it is worth sharing, there is a name and date on the scabbard, the name is not legible anymore, (its English in cursive,) and the date 1891

You bet Joe, Im glad I could add something useful, and welcome the opportunity to learn more on these aspects of these weapons.
Actually, while many of these symbols, motifs and decorations exist in remarkable similarity throughout the vast Berber sphere, they may have differing connotation somewhat depending on the regions and tribal groups.

With the West African symbols from the Vodun religion, many of these, which could have some representation in degree from Berber symbols, have indeed turned up in the 'Voodoo' veves. These Caribbean symbols derive from the Catholic Faith combined with Vodun becoming Santeria.

Naturally all of these are represented throughout the material culture of all these groups in many ways. What is often surprising is that the subject of symbols and markings of these kinds in ethnographic weapons are seldom, if ever, touched on in any depth. The interpretation of these is so highly subjective and deeply arcane that few wish to enter these areas.

kronckew · 22nd February 2021, 06:18 AM

My favourite Nimcha, and its star/eyebrow marking, roughly forged/pitted, gold designs on the guard. Wood grip replacement.

Posted originally HERE

JoeCanada42 · 22nd February 2021, 05:34 PM

The interpretation of these is so highly subjective and deeply arcane that few wish to enter these areas.,, I do like to, even if its just for fun...

Thanks for sharing you sword Kronckew I find it very interesting.
If I had to bet id say the wood handle could be original. looks like it could be 100 or 150 years old, and on a functional weapon id expect the wood handle to last. I dont know enough about the blades it looks older, But when your Nimcha was made assembled I bet it was with the wood handle. It looks like it matches. even the grain in the wood. your handle being of wood, and other nimcha handles with the more significant dragon shapes, remind me of Viking Boats...
Your Nimcha also on The Quillon has the three swirls wich look kinda like waves, matches the wood nautical viking theme, The image of the 3 swirls also look like Thors Hammer. also the actual "tear drop koftgari" on the quillons is very nice, gets me thinking maybe the whole reason the guard on nimchas has 3 prongs and not 2 or 4 may be symbolic. I looked at you original post and wish there was better photos, I suspect you eyelash mark is on the point of balance, and I like how the stars make a distance adequate to accommodate a limb or neck if cutting.

this may seem arcane but I was researching Orisha Gods recently specifically Ogun, and Shango. Shango In particular is significant to many .. is very Similar to Thor superficially.. just maybe "Viking" influence is understated

kronckew · 22nd February 2021, 09:05 PM

I've seen Viking jewelery (Thor's Hammer Mjolnir, for one) with similar spirals. (see below) Inote the Hammer head looks a lot like the decorated shape on the crossguard.

Here's a better HDR picture I took tonight, Lighting was not terribly good, might try again tomorrow in daylight. Sword was hung vertically on a ss hook in the finger area & rotated after.
p.s.- the stars & eyelash are on both sides.

Edited: Bit better exposure added:

22nd February 2021, 06:18 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,152	My favourite Nimcha, and its star/eyebrow marking, roughly forged/pitted, gold designs on the guard. Wood grip replacement. Posted originally HERE Attached Images

22nd February 2021, 05:34 PM	#3
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	The interpretation of these is so highly subjective and deeply arcane that few wish to enter these areas.,, I do like to, even if its just for fun... Thanks for sharing you sword Kronckew I find it very interesting. If I had to bet id say the wood handle could be original. looks like it could be 100 or 150 years old, and on a functional weapon id expect the wood handle to last. I dont know enough about the blades it looks older, But when your Nimcha was made assembled I bet it was with the wood handle. It looks like it matches. even the grain in the wood. your handle being of wood, and other nimcha handles with the more significant dragon shapes, remind me of Viking Boats... Your Nimcha also on The Quillon has the three swirls wich look kinda like waves, matches the wood nautical viking theme, The image of the 3 swirls also look like Thors Hammer. also the actual "tear drop koftgari" on the quillons is very nice, gets me thinking maybe the whole reason the guard on nimchas has 3 prongs and not 2 or 4 may be symbolic. I looked at you original post and wish there was better photos, I suspect you eyelash mark is on the point of balance, and I like how the stars make a distance adequate to accommodate a limb or neck if cutting. this may seem arcane but I was researching Orisha Gods recently specifically Ogun, and Shango. Shango In particular is significant to many .. is very Similar to Thor superficially.. just maybe "Viking" influence is understated Last edited by JoeCanada42; 22nd February 2021 at 05:47 PM.

22nd February 2021, 09:05 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,152	I've seen Viking jewelery (Thor's Hammer Mjolnir, for one) with similar spirals. (see below) Inote the Hammer head looks a lot like the decorated shape on the crossguard. Here's a better HDR picture I took tonight, Lighting was not terribly good, might try again tomorrow in daylight. Sword was hung vertically on a ss hook in the finger area & rotated after. p.s.- the stars & eyelash are on both sides. Edited: Bit better exposure added: Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 23rd February 2021 at 10:00 AM.