European hunting sword for comments

SwordLover79 · 4th December 2023, 02:13 PM

I imagined a person who was a true character wearing this sword and telling stories by a campfire while selling potions. The scabbard is wrapped in bright green/blue shagreen with large silver mounts. The ivory hilt is adorned with large moons and stars - and of course the blade is covered with mystical symbols. Hard to imagine that it was used by a military person or even a hunter...

Jim McDougall · 4th December 2023, 03:19 PM

What is needed here is perspective,
The HUNT, in these times was not just for procurement of food, or the sporting event of modern times, but was typically a gala ritual for individuals of high station among nobility and the gentry.

For those with serious interest in the study of arms decoration, particularly apparent in hunting weapons as well as court or dress arms, I would recommend "Hunting Weapons" by the late Howard L.Blackmore , 1971, which thoroughly explains the details of such decoration.

On p.19, it is noted" "...rich decoration on a sword which would often be put to hard usage was by no means unusual".

Bashford Dean, in 1929, in "Catalog of European Court and Hunting Swords", presents amazing photos and thorough detail on the decoration and manner of varied examples and styles. While this volume is rare (1000 copies) it seems I have seen it online.

In these hunting events, much of it was very much a 'fashion' show as much as ritual, and elaborate apparel was worn. Blackmore (op.cit. p31) notes, "..few of the hunting swords worn with such apparel can ever have been intended for action, although their owners made certain that they lacked nothing in splendor for the occasion".

Bashford Dean actually dismissed most of these hunting swords as degenerate court swords, 'small enough to be conveniently carried in the forest', but used only on rare occasions to defend the wearer from a wounded and enraged boar or stag (very ineffectively he notes). These elaborately decorated weapons were never intended for use in field dressing, which was the work of the attendants accompanying the hunt party.

The principalities of Eastern Europe, particularly in the Holy Roman sphere such as Austro-Hungary, including Bavaria notably, were known for key artisans who carried out the decoration of many of these elaborate weapons. However, in the competitive aura of these men in social circles led to the 'mystique' popular in the 18th century with elaborate 'occult' themes on blades imbuing them with 'magic' in talismanic protective sense as well as invocation for success in the hunt.

If one doubts the popular attraction of the times to 'magic', one of the quintessant figures of the period was of course Cagliostro, whose enchantment of royal circles became fabled in literature. This was far more than theatrical, as superstition reigned supreme throughout these European cultural spheres from 17th through 18th centuries.

The 'modern' character of magic from 19th c. onward is of course primarily showmanship skillfully performed to thrill a public anxious for mystery and excitement. This same character was that sought by high station figures in the times of these elaborate weapons, as they sought to impress by these allusions in the character of their personal weapons.

Any chance of better images of the inscribed motif on the blade?

SwordLover79 · 4th December 2023, 10:20 PM

Jim: I didn't intend to make light of this or any other hunting sword. I always figured that the gentleman who ordered this sword originally must have believed in the supernatural. He clearly was a person of means, given materials used and the quality of workmanship. The sword and blade are quite robust and would have been useful as a self defense qweapon. I uploaded the best images I can produce of the inscriptions....

Jim McDougall · 5th December 2023, 12:49 AM

I didnt take it that you were, but wanted to explain the perspective often taken by many in regard to hunting swords. Actually I figured you already knew the true character of them, but were describing your earlier thoughts. I often look at swords I have had for over 40 years and recall what I thought they were.....worlds from what decades of research revealed....some more amazing than thought, some disappointingly far from what I hoped.

I have long wanted to describe some of the detail I have found over the years on these swords, and what these mysterious and intriguing weapons were really all about, so this was a perfect opportunity. It is a most esoteric area of collecting, which truly makes it all the more interesting, IMO.

Most of these weapons were as you note, with pretty solid blades so could be used effectively.The examples described by Dean as 'degenerate court swords' were pretty flamboyant, not these heavy bladed types. Many 'hunting hangers' were used militarily, as well as cutlasses on many vessels.
Its mostly a matter of the character of each individual weapon, rather than a generalized observation of the genre as a whole.

4th December 2023, 02:13 PM	#1
SwordLover79 Member Join Date: Jun 2022 Location: San Diego Posts: 56	I imagined a person who was a true character wearing this sword and telling stories by a campfire while selling potions. The scabbard is wrapped in bright green/blue shagreen with large silver mounts. The ivory hilt is adorned with large moons and stars - and of course the blade is covered with mystical symbols. Hard to imagine that it was used by a military person or even a hunter... Attached Images

4th December 2023, 10:20 PM	#3
SwordLover79 Member Join Date: Jun 2022 Location: San Diego Posts: 56	Jim: I didn't intend to make light of this or any other hunting sword. I always figured that the gentleman who ordered this sword originally must have believed in the supernatural. He clearly was a person of means, given materials used and the quality of workmanship. The sword and blade are quite robust and would have been useful as a self defense qweapon. I uploaded the best images I can produce of the inscriptions.... Attached Images

4th December 2023, 03:19 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	What is needed here is perspective, The HUNT, in these times was not just for procurement of food, or the sporting event of modern times, but was typically a gala ritual for individuals of high station among nobility and the gentry. For those with serious interest in the study of arms decoration, particularly apparent in hunting weapons as well as court or dress arms, I would recommend "Hunting Weapons" by the late Howard L.Blackmore , 1971, which thoroughly explains the details of such decoration. On p.19, it is noted" "...rich decoration on a sword which would often be put to hard usage was by no means unusual". Bashford Dean, in 1929, in "Catalog of European Court and Hunting Swords", presents amazing photos and thorough detail on the decoration and manner of varied examples and styles. While this volume is rare (1000 copies) it seems I have seen it online. In these hunting events, much of it was very much a 'fashion' show as much as ritual, and elaborate apparel was worn. Blackmore (op.cit. p31) notes, "..few of the hunting swords worn with such apparel can ever have been intended for action, although their owners made certain that they lacked nothing in splendor for the occasion". Bashford Dean actually dismissed most of these hunting swords as degenerate court swords, 'small enough to be conveniently carried in the forest', but used only on rare occasions to defend the wearer from a wounded and enraged boar or stag (very ineffectively he notes). These elaborately decorated weapons were never intended for use in field dressing, which was the work of the attendants accompanying the hunt party. The principalities of Eastern Europe, particularly in the Holy Roman sphere such as Austro-Hungary, including Bavaria notably, were known for key artisans who carried out the decoration of many of these elaborate weapons. However, in the competitive aura of these men in social circles led to the 'mystique' popular in the 18th century with elaborate 'occult' themes on blades imbuing them with 'magic' in talismanic protective sense as well as invocation for success in the hunt. If one doubts the popular attraction of the times to 'magic', one of the quintessant figures of the period was of course Cagliostro, whose enchantment of royal circles became fabled in literature. This was far more than theatrical, as superstition reigned supreme throughout these European cultural spheres from 17th through 18th centuries. The 'modern' character of magic from 19th c. onward is of course primarily showmanship skillfully performed to thrill a public anxious for mystery and excitement. This same character was that sought by high station figures in the times of these elaborate weapons, as they sought to impress by these allusions in the character of their personal weapons. Any chance of better images of the inscribed motif on the blade?

5th December 2023, 12:49 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	I didnt take it that you were, but wanted to explain the perspective often taken by many in regard to hunting swords. Actually I figured you already knew the true character of them, but were describing your earlier thoughts. I often look at swords I have had for over 40 years and recall what I thought they were.....worlds from what decades of research revealed....some more amazing than thought, some disappointingly far from what I hoped. I have long wanted to describe some of the detail I have found over the years on these swords, and what these mysterious and intriguing weapons were really all about, so this was a perfect opportunity. It is a most esoteric area of collecting, which truly makes it all the more interesting, IMO. Most of these weapons were as you note, with pretty solid blades so could be used effectively.The examples described by Dean as 'degenerate court swords' were pretty flamboyant, not these heavy bladed types. Many 'hunting hangers' were used militarily, as well as cutlasses on many vessels. Its mostly a matter of the character of each individual weapon, rather than a generalized observation of the genre as a whole.