Shaver Cool -- redux

TVV · 22nd January 2024, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I believe "Batavia" refers to the place, the former capital of the Dutch East Indies that now corresponds to present-day Jakarta, not a boat.

Good point, but for some reason my mind went straight to the ship, and a potential attempt to try to associate the hanger with it. Genuine VOC blades do have city markings, but if I am not mistaken those are one letter only, like A for Amsterdam for example and all referring to cities in the Netherlands, not to any colonies.

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2024, 01:23 AM

In looking again at the inscription, the quoted "BATAVIA" WOULD indeed not refer to a place in that manner, but directly in commemoration to that ship.
This is of course a 19th century item in that sense, more of a souvenir type weapon? not of high enough quality for presentation or ceremonial.

As you say, the authentic examples of VOC blades have the 'chamber' letter of one of the six kamers (chambers) , which A (Amsterdam) was most common; with M (Middleburg) R (Rotterdam) etc.. These letters were with the VOC and blades were dated with year, seeming to range from mid 18th c. to late 18th.

Its been a while since we've been in these waters!

kai · 23rd January 2024, 02:14 AM

Dear all,

I believe we're getting sidetracked here - references to VOC and Batavia (town/ship/whatever) are completely spurious.

The quality of these "shaver cool items" definitely points to the post-independence era - no chance that these originated from the 19th century!

I believe we had a thread some years back that showed swords with similar fittings attributed as presentation pieces of the early Indonesian navy. These "shaver cool items" seem to be cheap knockoffs of this style with added spices for making them more palatable to those traveling for pleasure.

My 2 cents...

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 23rd January 2024, 03:45 AM

Kai,

I agree mostly with what you say. I too think these are inexpensive pieces aimed at those who travel. However, some appear to have more age than others. The basic pattern seems to be a Dutch naval officer's sword of 1880. That they are of Indonesian manufacture seems well established. All markings are not authentic historically, and designed for marketing purposes. As to when these swords were made, I think that some are early 20th C, possibly coincident with the European styled pieces of better quality from W. Java, while others appear more recent in manufacture.

Attempts to decide whether Batavia refers to a place or an historical VOC ship are interesting but of no real importance given that the inscriptions on these swords are basically meaningless.

I don't think we need to drag this story out much further. I posted this example as a "remember when," rather than a serious discussion of the merits and meanings of these swords.

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2024, 07:51 AM

Ian, just wanted to thank you, this was indeed a nice gesture to remembering when some amazing discussions happened here, and this one was a classic that just would not let go!
It would seem it still has the same 'draw'

I think you have summed it up nicely, and the topic of the widely dispersed VOC blades remains ever intriguing....while these much later VOC souvenirs still remain the specious 'red herrings' that challenge us.

Radboud · 24th January 2024, 10:29 PM

When my family travelled to Bali in the 1980's these 'shaver cool' swords were available in every second tourist junk shop we wandered into. They'd be stacked up alongside fake Kris, katanas and other paraphernalia.

They were all cheaply made, with mild steel blades and thin brass guards. We brought one home, along with a couple of 'katanas' and a Kris, but they all ended up in the tip (ironically 6months before I discovered the 'shaver cool' phenomenon).

Personally I believe that these swords are actually modelled on the dress sword for Indoneasian navy officers which features the same Garuda head pommel, bone handle and feathered backstrap. That in itself dates them to no earlier than the mid 20th Century.

Rick · 25th January 2024, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radboud

When my family travelled to Bali in the 1980's these 'shaver cool' swords were available in every second tourist junk shop we wandered into. They'd be stacked up alongside fake Kris, katanas and other paraphernalia.

They were all cheaply made, with mild steel blades and thin brass guards. We brought one home, along with a couple of 'katanas' and a Kris, but they all ended up in the tip (ironically 6months before I discovered the 'shaver cool' phenomenon).

Personally I believe that these swords are actually modelled on the dress sword for Indoneasian navy officers which features the same Garuda head pommel, bone handle and feathered backstrap. That in itself dates them to no earlier than the mid 20th Century.

An eyewitness at last, Jîm!

Jim McDougall · 25th January 2024, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

An eyewitness at last, Jîm!

About time ya popped in here ya old salt!
Yup, AT LAST................PROOF!

For some reason, the whole Shaver Cool phenomenon always brought to mind the weird strings of meaningful laconic signs along the highway on long driving trips that ended up with BURMA SHAVE. I never mentioned that in the never ending strings of entries over those years...only to my therapist

Thank you Radboud!! Now we can get some sleep!

David · 23rd January 2024, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Dear all,

I believe we're getting sidetracked here - references to VOC and Batavia (town/ship/whatever) are completely spurious.

The quality of these "shaver cool items" definitely points to the post-independence era - no chance that these originated from the 19th century!

I believe we had a thread some years back that showed swords with similar fittings attributed as presentation pieces of the early Indonesian navy. These "shaver cool items" seem to be cheap knockoffs of this style with added spices for making them more palatable to those traveling for pleasure.

My 2 cents...

Regards,
Kai

Exactly!

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2024, 05:26 PM

SHAVER COOL reigns!

gp · 23rd January 2024, 07:37 PM

2 pics of VOC swords

one from Java after European model, hilt with copper mounting and grip made from horn
pamor double-edged blade with at both sides VOC and A (Amsterdam) monogram year 1742 engraved , lenght 64 cm

the second one has a double-eged blade, engraved 1655, below the brass basket hilt the letters V.O.Cm made in Ambon
According to the Dutch Army Museum from a later date

some nice cold weapons from the same date in the Rijksmuseum Amsterdam

https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijkss...bres-and-foils

23rd January 2024, 01:23 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	In looking again at the inscription, the quoted "BATAVIA" WOULD indeed not refer to a place in that manner, but directly in commemoration to that ship. This is of course a 19th century item in that sense, more of a souvenir type weapon? not of high enough quality for presentation or ceremonial. As you say, the authentic examples of VOC blades have the 'chamber' letter of one of the six kamers (chambers) , which A (Amsterdam) was most common; with M (Middleburg) R (Rotterdam) etc.. These letters were with the VOC and blades were dated with year, seeming to range from mid 18th c. to late 18th. Its been a while since we've been in these waters! Last edited by Jim McDougall; 23rd January 2024 at 02:39 AM.

23rd January 2024, 07:37 PM	#11
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 668	2 pics of VOC swords one from Java after European model, hilt with copper mounting and grip made from horn pamor double-edged blade with at both sides VOC and A (Amsterdam) monogram year 1742 engraved , lenght 64 cm the second one has a double-eged blade, engraved 1655, below the brass basket hilt the letters V.O.Cm made in Ambon According to the Dutch Army Museum from a later date some nice cold weapons from the same date in the Rijksmuseum Amsterdam https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijkss...bres-and-foils Attached Images

23rd January 2024, 02:14 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,223	Dear all, I believe we're getting sidetracked here - references to VOC and Batavia (town/ship/whatever) are completely spurious. The quality of these "shaver cool items" definitely points to the post-independence era - no chance that these originated from the 19th century! I believe we had a thread some years back that showed swords with similar fittings attributed as presentation pieces of the early Indonesian navy. These "shaver cool items" seem to be cheap knockoffs of this style with added spices for making them more palatable to those traveling for pleasure. My 2 cents... Regards, Kai

23rd January 2024, 03:45 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,043	Kai, I agree mostly with what you say. I too think these are inexpensive pieces aimed at those who travel. However, some appear to have more age than others. The basic pattern seems to be a Dutch naval officer's sword of 1880. That they are of Indonesian manufacture seems well established. All markings are not authentic historically, and designed for marketing purposes. As to when these swords were made, I think that some are early 20th C, possibly coincident with the European styled pieces of better quality from W. Java, while others appear more recent in manufacture. Attempts to decide whether Batavia refers to a place or an historical VOC ship are interesting but of no real importance given that the inscriptions on these swords are basically meaningless. I don't think we need to drag this story out much further. I posted this example as a "remember when," rather than a serious discussion of the merits and meanings of these swords.

23rd January 2024, 07:51 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Ian, just wanted to thank you, this was indeed a nice gesture to remembering when some amazing discussions happened here, and this one was a classic that just would not let go! It would seem it still has the same 'draw' I think you have summed it up nicely, and the topic of the widely dispersed VOC blades remains ever intriguing....while these much later VOC souvenirs still remain the specious 'red herrings' that challenge us.

24th January 2024, 10:29 PM	#6
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 226	When my family travelled to Bali in the 1980's these 'shaver cool' swords were available in every second tourist junk shop we wandered into. They'd be stacked up alongside fake Kris, katanas and other paraphernalia. They were all cheaply made, with mild steel blades and thin brass guards. We brought one home, along with a couple of 'katanas' and a Kris, but they all ended up in the tip (ironically 6months before I discovered the 'shaver cool' phenomenon). Personally I believe that these swords are actually modelled on the dress sword for Indoneasian navy officers which features the same Garuda head pommel, bone handle and feathered backstrap. That in itself dates them to no earlier than the mid 20th Century.

23rd January 2024, 05:26 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	SHAVER COOL reigns!