Knife for I.D. - U.S. ?

[Jim McDougall]

This is a very attractive frontier knife and as Mark has well described, there are a number of elements which may help in discerning where this blade might be from. There is no doubt it is a repurposed and refitted blade, and likely from mid 19th c. as Mark suggests.

As he notes, the distinct forte is not typically seen on blades of Spanish colonial espada anchas, however, these geometric markings are of almost exact style I have seen on numbers of them, usually late 18th into early 19th c.
The ones I have seen were from New Mexico regions, but trade and activity from there traveled into the mid US plains states.

The spear point type blade is consistent with many 19th c. trade/frontier knives found with not only frontiersmen, but American Indians and blades were always at a premium, so could be re profiled as required from many host blades.

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is a very attractive frontier knife and as Mark has well described, there are a number of elements which may help in discerning where this blade might be from. There is no doubt it is a repurposed and refitted blade, and likely from mid 19th c. as Mark suggests.

As he notes, the distinct forte is not typically seen on blades of Spanish colonial espada anchas, however, these geometric markings are of almost exact style I have seen on numbers of them, usually late 18th into early 19th c.
The ones I have seen were from New Mexico regions, but trade and activity from there traveled into the mid US plains states.

The spear point type blade is consistent with many 19th c. trade/frontier knives found with not only frontiersmen, but American Indians and blades were always at a premium, so could be re profiled as required from many host blades.

Thanks Jim, can you recommend any literature or museum websites etc., for the study of such knives ?

[Richard G]

Could that first engraving represent a turtle? I have no idea what it might mean if it did, other than perhaps indicating a warm, coastal association.
Regards
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Thanks Jim, can you recommend any literature or museum websites etc., for the study of such knives ?

You bet Colin,
Best place is Museum of the Fur Trade
6321 Highway 20
Chadron, Nebraska 69337
http://www.furtrade.org
This is one of the most comprehensive resources on plains, midwest, Spanish colonial etc etc. I have ever encountered.
They publish a journal which has proven one of the most key resources ever!
I've never been there, but they are always most helpful.

In "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" George Nuemann, 1973 there is great section on knives which attends to the many forms of belt knives, which these are.
In Mexican they are termed 'belduque' and these are touched on in "Spanish Military Arms in Colonial America, 1700-1821", Brinckerhoff & Chamberlain, 1972.

There are misc. mentions in references on Native American weapons, as blades were either acquired from settlers in trade etc. and often the blades from lances, swords etc. were repurposed. The American Indians were not much into metal work so relied on blades already in required profile as a rule.

The term 'Bowie' became mostly a collective term for any large bladed knife or with clipped back (partially sharpened on back), a fighting feature.
Large frontier knives for utility and field dressing game etc. became the standard, which led to the obsolescence of swords in the US. The espada ancha was basically a 'machete' and these and large frontier knives sort of met in the middle, becoming the large guarded examples often deemed 'Confederate knives' of Civil War period.

Richard, very astute observation! and I can recall some years ago with similar motif found on some South and Central American swords, basically in a Spanish colonial context. A guy I was researching with made the 'turtle' connection, and in the lore of Indian tribes in the New World there are some references to turtles it seems. The asterisk looking star is also apparent on many of these themes.
I recall the four leaf floral pattern on an espada ancha blade from New Mexico, and have seen them on others.
Basically, these motif engravings seem well aligned with Mexican or Spanish colonial metalwork decoration.

The Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862 was "Cinco de Mayo" and it is impossible having grown up in Southern California not to be aware of it! It is every bit as much celebration as the 4th of July as it was the day of Mexico's independence.

The history of the early US and Mexico is probably the richest and most intriguing ever!! which is why Mark and I have been so addicted to it!!