Use of Actual Vintage Arms as Props in Early Films

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... In finding some detail on the auction of Valentino's weapons after his death in 1926, while seen in panoply as displays in his mansion, "Falcons Lair" in Beverly Hills, some of these do seem authentic. While I am under the impression she were acquired from antiques dealers by a decorator, I am wondering if they might have been taken from studio stores....

Your assumption is obviously correct, Jim. While it is possible (read probable) that some items in his collection were brought from studio prop stores, there is no doubt that the ones (all ?) listed in the auction catalogue were tagged as being authentic ... and from early periods. The Persian shield, sold for a good figure (circa $ 8.000), the not so old Knights of Pythias silver sword, a few rapiers from the 17th century, one signed by a famous Toledo master, you name it.
With a bit of patience one may browse the catalogue and confirm that the items at auction were the real thing.
Even his personal utilities had a collector's touch.

Best
Fernando

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Your assumption is obviously correct, Jim. While it is possible (read probable) that some items in his collection were brought from studio prop stores, there is no doubt that the ones (all ?) listed in the auction catalogue were tagged as being authentic ... and from early periods. The Persian shield, sold for a good figure (circa $ 8.000), the not so old Knights of Pythias silver sword, a few rapiers from the 17th century, one signed by a famous Toledo master, you name it.
With a bit of patience one may browse the catalogue and confirm that the items at auction were the real thing.
Even his personal utilities had a collector's touch.

Best
Fernando

Thank you so much Fernando for these notes and links. Actually I am still searching for more detail on movie props in the early studios, and there is a frightening dearth of attention to any weaponry that might have existed.
Most of the attention is to costumes and 'gadgetry' in sets.

I had always had the notion that Valentino had acquired these swords from movie props he either got from films he appeared in or had access to or association with. He was, of course, as many of the male leading actors, quite involved in fencing, which was part of general training. When I took fencing many years ago, the class was designated 'stage combat' which was of course very much aligned with the type of activity they would have learned.

However, in research I have found that Valentino had some issues with men challenging his masculinity, and that led to that extra masculine atmosphere he wished to be appointed in his mansion. It was the decorator(s) who acquired the antique arms and swords which were displayed, and in those days these were readily available and not particularly expensive. Even early rapiers could be obtained for remarkably low prices.

Those were the days!!!

[fernando]

I knew about some folks mocking his masculinity, those opposing his favoritism to contemporary Douglas Fairbanks. But i didn't know he took it so seriously as having his decorator to hang weaponry on the walls to prove otherwise, as if he needed to so prove. As a matter of fact, he had females 'dying' for him. But the point is that, frustrated or not, those weapons were authentic. I look forward to hearing from you about possible movie props around his mansion; apparently those that didn't reach auction/s.
Best
Fernando

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Fernando. It would seem that the idea the idea Valentino might have placed these weapons on display as props to augment masculinity was most definitely misplaced. In various sources, I found that after Valentino's death, his estate was auctioned Dec. 10,1926 at Hall of Art Studios, Hollywood and administered by his close friend and confidante S.George Ullman.
The catalogs of this sale are rare but several have been sold in recent years.
Several of the swords are included, one of which is listed as a Masonic Knights Templar sword (lot #615).

While this is not 'antique' , it is actually a Knights of Pythias sword (the FCB acrostic for their motto). It seems quite possible Valentino might have been awarded this by the local lodge, the Damon Lodge, #338, Hollywood.

In "Valentino as I Knew Him" (George Ullman, 1926) it is noted that Valentino and his wife traveled to Europe in 1924 and bought props for their upcoming movie "The Hooded Falcon" which was to be set in 14th c. Spain.
While these included clothing and other antique items, I would presume there was weaponry as well. This movie ended up not being made.

In this same book, Ullman notes, "...if a reporter showed any interest in the armor or firearms of which the Valentino collection is sui generis (=of its own kind), here once more his showmanship came into evidence. Not only did he possess specimens of every sort of sword, cuirass,spear, dart, javelin, assegai and what not, but firearms from the most ancient make down to the latest Colt were his. And if you thought the carving upon an ancient sword blade was inexplicable or unknown to Rudolph Valentino, all you had to do to correct your impression was the question him. With a flow of words in the careful English which many foreigners require, he would explain to you, not only the carvings significance, but in all probability, an historical sketch of the man who made it".

His mansion, named 'Falcons Lair', for the movie "The Hooded Falcon" was carefully appointed with antique furnishings which lent to his genuine Italian ancestry, and now, as I have found..........the antique arms which were in panoply on the walls and various displays, were genuine, and he clearly was discerning and knew the history of them.

It would be difficult to determine what became of these weapons after dispersed into private collections after auction. As a discerning collector it is doubtful that any weapons intended for use in films that were not genuine antiques would be of interest to him. Clearly antique weapons would have been acquired by other studios much in the manner Valentino sought them for his movie.

[fernando]

Good stuff, Jim. I am glad that my unprepared notion of this subject matches with reality. And so it appears that good old Rodolfo favored the use of authentic weapons on stage rather than replicas.