A Fine and Highy Unusual Portuguese Double Dog Wheellock Gun, ca. 1580

Anandalal N. · 27th March 2011, 09:20 AM

Hi Michael,

Interesting find as usual. Lovely firearm and workmanship. Unfortunately the view is clearly limited.

Try as I might I am unable to find any single element that would enable me to definitely agree with a Cingalese origin. Similarities are there of course but since the view is limited, it is difficult to come to a clear conclusion. On the other hand the winged humans, scales in hand and the type of lions on the under side of the stock ... do they suggest a non oriental origin particularly, European?

Interestingly, Arne Hoff in Dutch Firearms identifies a wheel-lock with a shell shaped design on the lock as a Dutch Firearm. See color plate II.

Regards.

P.S. Now you'd better make sure your flat is not bugged too.

Matchlock · 27th March 2011, 12:21 PM

Hi Anandalal,

Thank you so much for your input!

When surmising a Cingalese-Malayan stylistic influence I let myself inspire by Rainer Daehnhardt's book on the close connection between Portugal and those countries. As you know I know almost nothing about weapons from Sri Lanka or Malay.

On the other hand, I cannot find any Western European art style on that piece either. My first thought when looking at that winged figure of Justice on the buttstock was the Inca culture in Peru but that's impossible.

I attach two Cingalese guns scanned from Howard L. Blackmore: Guns and Rifles of the World, 1965. Don't the running scrolls on the lower buttstock look similar to those on the Coburg gun?

Maybe somebody else from the Ethnographic forum can help us?

Best,
Michael

Anandalal N. · 27th March 2011, 07:29 PM

Hi Michael,

I am not disputing you. The resemblance in the scroll work is certainly there. Also the fretted butt-stock also leans towards Cingalese. What I am saying is that there is no single element by which I can make a definite identification.

However, your other comment is even more interesting. To me at first glance the other face on the butt-stock suggested Inca but like you I too thought it impossible. But now that you too have thought so, maybe it is not so impossible after all. On the other hand that makes it a very interesting find??

Regards.

Matchlock · 27th March 2011, 10:20 PM

Exactly, Anandalal,

It's a notable find anyway!

The Inca culture died about 500 years ago, almost 100 years before that gun was manufactured. No trade relations between the Iberian Peninsula and the Southern American continent have ever come to my knowledge though. What's possible: that the stock ornamentation is 19th c. Historismus fantasy. I'm afraid though no final judgement is possible without close scientific inspection - and I am certainly not expert enough to do that.

Best,
Michael

27th March 2011, 09:20 AM	#1
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Cingalese? Hi Michael, Interesting find as usual. Lovely firearm and workmanship. Unfortunately the view is clearly limited. Try as I might I am unable to find any single element that would enable me to definitely agree with a Cingalese origin. Similarities are there of course but since the view is limited, it is difficult to come to a clear conclusion. On the other hand the winged humans, scales in hand and the type of lions on the under side of the stock ... do they suggest a non oriental origin particularly, European? Interestingly, Arne Hoff in Dutch Firearms identifies a wheel-lock with a shell shaped design on the lock as a Dutch Firearm. See color plate II. Regards. P.S. Now you'd better make sure your flat is not bugged too.

27th March 2011, 12:21 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Anandalal, Thank you so much for your input! When surmising a Cingalese-Malayan stylistic influence I let myself inspire by Rainer Daehnhardt's book on the close connection between Portugal and those countries. As you know I know almost nothing about weapons from Sri Lanka or Malay. On the other hand, I cannot find any Western European art style on that piece either. My first thought when looking at that winged figure of Justice on the buttstock was the Inca culture in Peru but that's impossible. I attach two Cingalese guns scanned from Howard L. Blackmore: Guns and Rifles of the World, 1965. Don't the running scrolls on the lower buttstock look similar to those on the Coburg gun? Maybe somebody else from the Ethnographic forum can help us? Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 27th March 2011 at 10:21 PM.

27th March 2011, 07:29 PM	#3
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Hi Michael, I am not disputing you. The resemblance in the scroll work is certainly there. Also the fretted butt-stock also leans towards Cingalese. What I am saying is that there is no single element by which I can make a definite identification. However, your other comment is even more interesting. To me at first glance the other face on the butt-stock suggested Inca but like you I too thought it impossible. But now that you too have thought so, maybe it is not so impossible after all. On the other hand that makes it a very interesting find?? Regards. Attached Images

27th March 2011, 10:20 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Anandalal, It's a notable find anyway! The Inca culture died about 500 years ago, almost 100 years before that gun was manufactured. No trade relations between the Iberian Peninsula and the Southern American continent have ever come to my knowledge though. What's possible: that the stock ornamentation is 19th c. Historismus fantasy. I'm afraid though no final judgement is possible without close scientific inspection - and I am certainly not expert enough to do that. Best, Michael