any ideas ?????

Iain · 27th May 2023, 12:18 PM

Just to throw another opinion in the mix... I see nothing with either the swords or the knives that seems 'off' for the region.

Antler is commonly used across Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam for knives. While perhaps not the most common hilt material it is certainly not unusual.

The swords are certainly unusual, but the tip profile, fullering and hilts all conform to other styles we know. I think the barge idea is probably spot on, although its difficult to pin down an exact attribution.

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 27th May 2023, 01:19 PM

Hi Iain, I know, it is perfectly usual for such horn to be used throughout the history of Siam and other countries throughout the region on knives large and small, China to, Sambar stag horn to as the type of deer were in south east Asia, and it is sambar stag on these hilts for sure.

Here are just a few pics to back up the idea of the royal barge weapons, back slung swords etc, I see no reason why these could not be pairs, or singles, steersman were known to carry paired swords on the royal barges, but there is little information about them in English or Thai available.
Or perhaps they are from another region further south where other klong barges were used with fighting men aboard to guard royals and high ranked officials etc.
Royal vanguard marines also carried swords and some in pairs, could be these are from one of the many barges filled with up front men who all carried swords and other weapons as royal guard and police waterborne marine vanguard clearing men, I will likely never know the whole storey behind them.
Siam was a place with many klongs - canals and waterways, still is today, many waterborne armies used them as was the same in Cambodia in the 19thc into the early 20th which is the date I would suggest for my pair of swords, and also the large knives, which actually do feel like back hand fighting blades in the hand, or badek -badik pistol grip types.
I could add so much more but for now this will do to show some similar types in use in earlier times in old early 20thc pics, and some from today.

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 27th May 2023, 03:03 PM

From the original auction pics, just to make sure that no one thinks these swords are as suggested altered in any way, HERE IS A CLOSE UP OF THE BLADE TIP !.
They are both as purchased and original.

Snody.

Ian · 27th May 2023, 06:04 PM

Biffy,

Sorry to upset you. The later pictures certainly show the swords to be older weapons and not reworked. As far as stag horn on knives, it has been my experience that this is uncommon on mainland SE Asian knives, especially the size of stag on these two. Perhaps you have other examples to show that you could post to a new thread.

This thread is closed for further discussion.

27th May 2023, 01:19 PM	#2
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Thanks Iain, duly noted. Hi Iain, I know, it is perfectly usual for such horn to be used throughout the history of Siam and other countries throughout the region on knives large and small, China to, Sambar stag horn to as the type of deer were in south east Asia, and it is sambar stag on these hilts for sure. Here are just a few pics to back up the idea of the royal barge weapons, back slung swords etc, I see no reason why these could not be pairs, or singles, steersman were known to carry paired swords on the royal barges, but there is little information about them in English or Thai available. Or perhaps they are from another region further south where other klong barges were used with fighting men aboard to guard royals and high ranked officials etc. Royal vanguard marines also carried swords and some in pairs, could be these are from one of the many barges filled with up front men who all carried swords and other weapons as royal guard and police waterborne marine vanguard clearing men, I will likely never know the whole storey behind them. Siam was a place with many klongs - canals and waterways, still is today, many waterborne armies used them as was the same in Cambodia in the 19thc into the early 20th which is the date I would suggest for my pair of swords, and also the large knives, which actually do feel like back hand fighting blades in the hand, or badek -badik pistol grip types. I could add so much more but for now this will do to show some similar types in use in earlier times in old early 20thc pics, and some from today. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 27th May 2023 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Abusive and argumentative comments removed

27th May 2023, 03:03 PM	#3
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	sword blade tips !! as originally made. From the original auction pics, just to make sure that no one thinks these swords are as suggested altered in any way, HERE IS A CLOSE UP OF THE BLADE TIP !. They are both as purchased and original. Snody. Attached Images

27th May 2023, 12:18 PM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,682	Just to throw another opinion in the mix... I see nothing with either the swords or the knives that seems 'off' for the region. Antler is commonly used across Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam for knives. While perhaps not the most common hilt material it is certainly not unusual. The swords are certainly unusual, but the tip profile, fullering and hilts all conform to other styles we know. I think the barge idea is probably spot on, although its difficult to pin down an exact attribution.

27th May 2023, 06:04 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,043	Biffy, Sorry to upset you. The later pictures certainly show the swords to be older weapons and not reworked. As far as stag horn on knives, it has been my experience that this is uncommon on mainland SE Asian knives, especially the size of stag on these two. Perhaps you have other examples to show that you could post to a new thread. This thread is closed for further discussion.