significance of native american warpaint/bodypaint

pallas · 22nd September 2009, 08:02 PM

so this topic isnt directly about ethnographic weapons but i do believe that it is quite closely related to that subject...

ive been curious as to the religious/cultural/political significance of native american warpaint, specifically the full body painting of the plains and southwest indians.......i had always wondered about the subject but had found rather scant information on the topic....my cuiosity got resurrected recently after seeing the painting of the battle between pedro de villasur/ L'Archeveque expedition and the pawnees at the loup/platte confluence in nebraska.....

note the body painting of the pawnee, the warrior painted white with a black face with small red or black crosses all over his body, or the warrior with half his body white and the other half painted with what look like jaguar spots?....most seem to have half their heads painted white and the other half black.....i was also wondering how far east the practice of warrior-body painting extended in this country and also why these warriors were apparently nude or close to it...with the recent post about native american armor, id have thought perhaps some type of armor would have been depicted.......from what ive read, this painting has been judged accurate and not a "conceptualized" or "fantasized" view of the battle....

another thing that im rather curious about is the lack of horses among the pawnee.....i thought most plains indians where mounted by 1700 or so........

fearn · 23rd September 2009, 12:50 AM

Hi Pallas,

While we're at it, we can also ask about the significance of clothing colors and fashions in western Europe.

I'm being a little sarcastic here, but the short (AND long) answer on paint is, "it depends."

Here's a short list of things that body paint can symbolize, with examples from North American Indians:
1. Marital status (many tribes, also seen frequently in tattoos).
2. Social status (one example: higher class chumash had more complex designs on their bodies).
3. Sunscreen (to a minor extent: I'm thinking of good old-fashioned mud).
4. Social/unit cohesion (some of the crazy warrior groups of the plains)
5. "vision" (my favorite are the heyokas, but I'll be you can find a lot of these)
6. Ceremonial dress (see above).
7. And last but not least: pure, old-fashioned personal decoration.

Since my ancestors are European, I'm pretty sure that at least one of them stripped naked, painted himself blue, spiked his hair with a lime-based mixture, and went charging in to battle with spear and shield. I'm also quite sure that some of my more modern relatives paint their faces half green and half yellow, paint a weird sigil on their cheeks that looks like a G, and go to "the cathedral of Saint Vincent" (Lombardy that is) to watch the Green Bay Packers play American football on Saturday mornings in the fall. Same ritual, similar genes, different reasons.

As I said, the reason for wearing paint really depends on circumstances.

Best,

F

KuKulzA28 · 23rd September 2009, 04:58 AM

I like the American football analogy fearn.

Sometimes the act of preparing for war is a psychological boost.
War paint can cover a lot of different roles, but that may be one...

I know that when confronted with an imminent fight... it is sometimes a morale-raiser to compose yourself, look over your weapons, and prepare yourself physically. For some that is the split second between seeing the mugger and reacting... for some it is having the fists wrapped and gloves put on... others still it is checking the switch blade, putting on the mask, and saying a quick prayer... for others it is carefully checking ammo and gun, wiping down equipment, and applying the camo-paint to the face...

Perhaps putting on the war-paint is akin to carefully putting on your armor, or saying a prayer, or wiping down your gun... it might be a bad idea to make equivalents with different warriors of different situations... but as long as we understand it is it's own act and has it's own consequences that are not the same as the above, I think it's ok.

Perhaps a similar thought would be indigenous tattoos that have to do with masculinity and warfare.

M ELEY · 23rd September 2009, 05:19 AM

It is interesting that it was so ritualistic and not ever done for camouflage purposes, apparently? Although, I am told that placing dark paint under the eyes decreases the glare from the sun, right? Just like football players...which strangely brings us back to Green Bay!

Rick · 23rd September 2009, 02:43 PM

War paint could also have been used to disguise the soul .

aiontay · 23rd September 2009, 08:12 PM

Fearn is on the right track with this one. A little more speificity is needed to answer the question, which is pretty broad. Since we're talking about Villasur, I'd say you'd be better off asking about body paint and its use among the Pawnees, and Peublo tribes, since they're the ones depicted. I'd point out that there could be quite a bit of divergence here between the Pawnee rationale and the SW rationale. I'm not saying that definitively, but just saying it is a possibility. I don't know, I'm not Pawnee or Jemez.

I would just point out that several Indians are depicted as armed with swords.

fearn · 23rd September 2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

It is interesting that it was so ritualistic and not ever done for camouflage purposes, apparently? Although, I am told that placing dark paint under the eyes decreases the glare from the sun, right? Just like football players...which strangely brings us back to Green Bay!

Forgot about that. I'm not sure I have a good example of camouflage paint, although natural materials (branches, soil, etc) were certainly used as such. I guess it depends on exactly what you want to consider paint.

Thinking about it, I've seen discussion about camouflage patterns on hunting bows and arrows in California, but I don't know of an example offhand.

Best,

F

22nd September 2009, 08:02 PM	#1
pallas Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 53	significance of native american warpaint/bodypaint so this topic isnt directly about ethnographic weapons but i do believe that it is quite closely related to that subject... ive been curious as to the religious/cultural/political significance of native american warpaint, specifically the full body painting of the plains and southwest indians.......i had always wondered about the subject but had found rather scant information on the topic....my cuiosity got resurrected recently after seeing the painting of the battle between pedro de villasur/ L'Archeveque expedition and the pawnees at the loup/platte confluence in nebraska..... note the body painting of the pawnee, the warrior painted white with a black face with small red or black crosses all over his body, or the warrior with half his body white and the other half painted with what look like jaguar spots?....most seem to have half their heads painted white and the other half black.....i was also wondering how far east the practice of warrior-body painting extended in this country and also why these warriors were apparently nude or close to it...with the recent post about native american armor, id have thought perhaps some type of armor would have been depicted.......from what ive read, this painting has been judged accurate and not a "conceptualized" or "fantasized" view of the battle.... another thing that im rather curious about is the lack of horses among the pawnee.....i thought most plains indians where mounted by 1700 or so........

23rd September 2009, 12:50 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Pallas, While we're at it, we can also ask about the significance of clothing colors and fashions in western Europe. I'm being a little sarcastic here, but the short (AND long) answer on paint is, "it depends." Here's a short list of things that body paint can symbolize, with examples from North American Indians: 1. Marital status (many tribes, also seen frequently in tattoos). 2. Social status (one example: higher class chumash had more complex designs on their bodies). 3. Sunscreen (to a minor extent: I'm thinking of good old-fashioned mud). 4. Social/unit cohesion (some of the crazy warrior groups of the plains) 5. "vision" (my favorite are the heyokas, but I'll be you can find a lot of these) 6. Ceremonial dress (see above). 7. And last but not least: pure, old-fashioned personal decoration. Since my ancestors are European, I'm pretty sure that at least one of them stripped naked, painted himself blue, spiked his hair with a lime-based mixture, and went charging in to battle with spear and shield. I'm also quite sure that some of my more modern relatives paint their faces half green and half yellow, paint a weird sigil on their cheeks that looks like a G, and go to "the cathedral of Saint Vincent" (Lombardy that is) to watch the Green Bay Packers play American football on Saturday mornings in the fall. Same ritual, similar genes, different reasons. As I said, the reason for wearing paint really depends on circumstances. Best, F

23rd September 2009, 04:58 AM	#3
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I like the American football analogy fearn. Sometimes the act of preparing for war is a psychological boost. War paint can cover a lot of different roles, but that may be one... I know that when confronted with an imminent fight... it is sometimes a morale-raiser to compose yourself, look over your weapons, and prepare yourself physically. For some that is the split second between seeing the mugger and reacting... for some it is having the fists wrapped and gloves put on... others still it is checking the switch blade, putting on the mask, and saying a quick prayer... for others it is carefully checking ammo and gun, wiping down equipment, and applying the camo-paint to the face... Perhaps putting on the war-paint is akin to carefully putting on your armor, or saying a prayer, or wiping down your gun... it might be a bad idea to make equivalents with different warriors of different situations... but as long as we understand it is it's own act and has it's own consequences that are not the same as the above, I think it's ok. Perhaps a similar thought would be indigenous tattoos that have to do with masculinity and warfare.

23rd September 2009, 05:19 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	It is interesting that it was so ritualistic and not ever done for camouflage purposes, apparently? Although, I am told that placing dark paint under the eyes decreases the glare from the sun, right? Just like football players...which strangely brings us back to Green Bay!

23rd September 2009, 02:43 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	War paint could also have been used to disguise the soul .

23rd September 2009, 08:12 PM	#6
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	Fearn is on the right track with this one. A little more speificity is needed to answer the question, which is pretty broad. Since we're talking about Villasur, I'd say you'd be better off asking about body paint and its use among the Pawnees, and Peublo tribes, since they're the ones depicted. I'd point out that there could be quite a bit of divergence here between the Pawnee rationale and the SW rationale. I'm not saying that definitively, but just saying it is a possibility. I don't know, I'm not Pawnee or Jemez. I would just point out that several Indians are depicted as armed with swords.