Old karambit

Ian · 11th October 2020, 12:19 PM

I have had this karambit since the late 1990s. I bought it from a woman who had lived in Jakarta for 30 years and she acquired it from an antique dealer in Jakarta in the late 1960s. She was told by the dealer it dated from the early 19th C.

This is the only karambit I have seen with a pamor blade, and I would like to ask our Indonesian experts whether this type of blade was common on karambit, particularly older examples. An estimate of age would be appreciated.

Ian.

.

Sajen · 11th October 2020, 04:48 PM

Hi Ian,

It's not the first one I have seen where the blade was etched. I guess that it's a Javanese way of restoration. Many different blades where I doubt that the ever was etched with warangan I have seen which seems recently been restored this way. Just my guess!

And my further guess is that old karambit blades are always laminated but normally polished.

Regards,
Detlef

mariusgmioc · 11th October 2020, 08:03 PM

I have seen quite a few with pattern welded/pamor blade, so I would assume this would be the norm for older blades.

Maybe you should ask Alan as I am sure he can give you a very educated answer.

Bob A · 11th October 2020, 09:15 PM

I have at present eight of these knives. The only two with pamor style blades are modern.

I've not seen pictures of any older ones with pamor/damascus blades.

A. G. Maisey · 11th October 2020, 10:01 PM

Ian, I have seen a lot of kerambit, lawi ayam, siraui & similar little knives with pamor blades, mostly they have been pretty recent.

I have had several older ones that were already in Australia before WWII, but the vast bulk of older knives of these types that I have seen and owned have been plain laminated iron or steel.

Similarly with keris bahari and other styles of keris that are normally thought of as not having pamor blades, I have seen, owned, and own now a number of these types of keris with pamor blades. None are particularly old. I rather suspect this trend towards pamor construction in these blades probably commenced in the early 20th century.

Ian · 13th October 2020, 05:30 AM

Alan, Bob, Marius, Detlef,

Thanks for your responses. When I mentioned "pamor" previously I was referring to warangan-etched blades on kerambit, which have been uncommon in my (limited) experience.

Thanks Alan for your thoughts about the earlier forms of these knives not being etched in this manner, which Detlef and Bob also mentioned. Laminated blades are obviously common on new interpretations, including those from the Philippines.

My inquiry was primarily about the use of warangan on these blades, and whether this represented an older style of kerambit. Alan has answered my question and indicated that it is a 20th C feature.

Thanks guys!

11th October 2020, 12:19 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,023	Old karambit I have had this karambit since the late 1990s. I bought it from a woman who had lived in Jakarta for 30 years and she acquired it from an antique dealer in Jakarta in the late 1960s. She was told by the dealer it dated from the early 19th C. This is the only karambit I have seen with a pamor blade, and I would like to ask our Indonesian experts whether this type of blade was common on karambit, particularly older examples. An estimate of age would be appreciated. Ian. . Attached Images

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11th October 2020, 04:48 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,465	Hi Ian, It's not the first one I have seen where the blade was etched. I guess that it's a Javanese way of restoration. Many different blades where I doubt that the ever was etched with warangan I have seen which seems recently been restored this way. Just my guess! And my further guess is that old karambit blades are always laminated but normally polished. Regards, Detlef

11th October 2020, 08:03 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,869	I have seen quite a few with pattern welded/pamor blade, so I would assume this would be the norm for older blades. Maybe you should ask Alan as I am sure he can give you a very educated answer.

11th October 2020, 09:15 PM	#4
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 409	I have at present eight of these knives. The only two with pamor style blades are modern. I've not seen pictures of any older ones with pamor/damascus blades.

11th October 2020, 10:01 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Ian, I have seen a lot of kerambit, lawi ayam, siraui & similar little knives with pamor blades, mostly they have been pretty recent. I have had several older ones that were already in Australia before WWII, but the vast bulk of older knives of these types that I have seen and owned have been plain laminated iron or steel. Similarly with keris bahari and other styles of keris that are normally thought of as not having pamor blades, I have seen, owned, and own now a number of these types of keris with pamor blades. None are particularly old. I rather suspect this trend towards pamor construction in these blades probably commenced in the early 20th century.

13th October 2020, 05:30 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,023	Alan, Bob, Marius, Detlef, Thanks for your responses. When I mentioned "pamor" previously I was referring to warangan-etched blades on kerambit, which have been uncommon in my (limited) experience. Thanks Alan for your thoughts about the earlier forms of these knives not being etched in this manner, which Detlef and Bob also mentioned. Laminated blades are obviously common on new interpretations, including those from the Philippines. My inquiry was primarily about the use of warangan on these blades, and whether this represented an older style of kerambit. Alan has answered my question and indicated that it is a 20th C feature. Thanks guys!