What swords might have been used at the Alamo battle?

[Jim McDougall]

EXCELLENT Fernando! great pictures, and surely suggest the presence of some swords there, though many donations there are simply 'of the period'.....still IMPORTANT , always possibilities.

Its been TOO long since Ive been there, I always dread San Antonio traffic. Definitely due for a trip so hopefully soon, hope to see the Collins collection.
Last summer I went berserk building a model of the Alamo....6 weeks of work in 100 degree heat...neighbors figured me for nuts. Mostly done, as seen here.
Far from exact or scale, but OK for yard art.

Thank you so much Fernando,
Jim

[urbanspaceman]

Hey Jim, you can always be relied on to keep us intrigued.
The only memory I have of the Alamo is of navy blue uniformed mounted soldiers with your sword at their side. I do not know where this memory comes from... maybe the John Wayne movie that I have not seen since the 1800s.
Keep us stimulated Jim

[urbanspaceman]

ps, the model looks great

[M ELEY]

I agree! Love that dioramic model you created of the Alamo! Also love this subject matter as to whether the Nathan Starr swords made it to the battle field. Unfortunately, I've nothing to add. Perhaps there are other opinions out there on these unique pattern swords...

[Rick]

I wonder if any of the Virginia Manufactory sabres wound up in that fight; they certainly were in existence in that era.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you guys!
and for the kind words on my mini-Alamo
I do think optimistically that at least several Starr sabers made it to the Alamo, as we know even just from one found instance of a Kentuckian who carried it in the War of 1812 as well as to Texas.
There were 120 guys in the New Orleans Greys who banded in 1835, and put together 'uniforms' and assembled equipment from stored surplus from the 1812 war. It seems likely these young guys, ready to parade off to war would grab flashy sabers as well.

Rick, I do recall when you found one of the Virginia Manufactory sabers!
I honestly have wanted one of those for over 4 decades, saw a couple but WAY out of my range! There is of course always a chance one might have gotten there. Remember, there were two units of Tennessee Mounted volunteers that went to Texas, and Tennessee aint that far from Virginia.

[Jim McDougall]

In posting this query, I should have been more explicit and specified what I am looking for, which is the swords used by the defenders of the Alamo. There is no doubt of course that Mexican officers were carrying swords.

In the attack, which actually took the defenders by surprise in the wee hours of the AM, the Mexican forces were using British firearms and primarily the bayonet.

It seems Travis was likely the only officer of defenders wearing a sword, but that is unclear, as is what type of sword it was.

With the Texian defenders were Tejanos under Seguin, who were also opposed to the Mexican government under Santa Anna. These were rancheros and vaqueros who most certainly would have had espada anchas as previously noted, again at least in some degree.

We know there was at least some presence of the Starr sabers in the overall theater of the Texas campaigns in this time, as they were pretty much primary surplus from the 1812 war from militias who had participated.

With the Virginia Manufactory sabers, it would be most interesting to find evidence of these. The key factor with these was the incredibly long and difficult to handle blade length, sharply curved over 40 inches long. This unusually long blade, making these sabers pretty notable, would seem likely to have been noted in accounts of Mexican forces, which are of course mostly the only records available.
That is hopefully where something might turn up.

I keep searching.......and I really appreciate ANY entry here, every thought or observation is important whether adding evidence or examples or not.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...Its been TOO long since Ive been there, I always dread San Antonio traffic. Definitely due for a trip so hopefully soon, hope to see the Collins collection....

I have been there in 2018. Pehraps in your next visit you find the Alamo site rather touristy ... read plastified!



.

[Jim McDougall]

LOL Fernando! At least they havent put in rides!
Still for Texans, we look through all the 'stuff' as this is still sacred ground, not only toward the defenders, but ALL the men who fell there.
Even the museums are as often the case, a bit 'embellished' , but again, for those deeply aware of Texas history, we see things accordingly.
Again, GREAT photos! I feel another visit coming, soon!

[Jim McDougall]

In post #2, with the excellent photos of some swords displayed at the Alamo museum, the bottom one is listed as a 'dragoon saber'.

While unclear on the intent of that classification, or any implication, I wonder if there was in mind the M1833 US Dragoon saber. There is of course a notable similarity, however the US M1833 was with brass hilt. While there were about 280 of these specifically to Texas (plus 18 to officers) they were not issued until after 1836 (when Texas became the Republic of Texas).

Then there is the more likely case that this is a Mexican 'dragoon' saber, with the distinctive langet with the branched guard, which was a French affectation favored in both US and Mexican swords.

Pages from "the American Sword 1775-1945", H.L.Peterson, 1973, the hilt is in brass, the rest of detail not relevant as the key point is the hilt with same kind of branched guard and langet in the museum example in post #2.

The 2nd image of the M1833 US Dragoon sword, in brass, no langet.

3rd, a Mexican (?) dragoon sword c. 1820s with Toledo blade....langets on branched guard, iron mounts.
* This is the most likely 'dragoon ' sword possible in Alamo context, but more likely with Mexican forces.

[Jim McDougall]

from "The American Sword 1775-1945". 1973, H.L.Peterson;
Note the Virginia (2nd Model) sword being considered, also the Nathan Starr saber of 1818, which were an altered version of the M1812 discussed. These may well have been included in the possibilities, however these would not have been among the War of 1812 surplus Nathan Starr sabers, which I think may have been possible for our context.

[kronckew]

Related:


George Hockley used a Starr sabre at San Jacinto, and Sam Houston's sword is in the Museum at the battle site. The weapons used at that decisive battle are shown HERE.


Additionally, Santa Anna's sword was captured, in the photo below. It certainly was at the Alamo. The other San Jacinto weapons would have been typical of those carried by the Texans, American and Mexican, who fought the Dictator for Independence.


The San Jacinto Battle site, Its Museum, and the nearby Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) are well worth visiting, and the traffic is probably a lot less than the Alamo. I passed by it many times while travelling between Houston & Galveston for my monthly & annual USCG Reserve duties..

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

...The San Jacinto Battle site, Its Museum, and the nearby Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) are well worth visiting, and the traffic is probably a lot less than the Alamo...

Yes indeed, Wayne. Visiting the Sky-High Monument and the Battleship were unforgettable experiences. Interesting, Museum too.