Philippine Dagger

[Bill M]

David,

I saw another post in which you said we had lost the pictures. Found another post with pictures. Thought I would revive this one. There were some very interesting comments on the earlier post.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Bill M

David,

I saw another post in which you said we had lost the pictures. Found another post with pictures. Thought I would revive this one. There were some very interesting comments on the earlier post.

That's a precious historical artifact that belonged to General Leandro Fullon. The aesthetics of the dagger resonate with other Cavite-marked daggers. I'd like to believe that most of the elaborate Katipunan daggers were made in that area.

I'm curious- did your plan to donate this piece push through?

Sincerely,
Xas

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by xasterix

That's a precious historical artifact that belonged to General Leandro Fullon. The aesthetics of the dagger resonate with other Cavite-marked daggers. I'd like to believe that most of the elaborate Katipunan daggers were made in that area.

I'm curious- did your plan to donate this piece push through?

Sincerely,
Xas

I had planned to donate to a museum in the PI, but I was in contact with a putri in the government. But she suggested that if I did donate it to a museum, it would not wind up in a museum where people could enjoy it, but it would get into the wrong hands and it would be hidden in a private collection.

So I have a friend at the Smithsonian who has a very powerful vault for safekeeping, not even in my state. I had threats that it must be returned to the PI or I would be harmed.

[Rick]

Extortion Bill?
That's a new low.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Rick

Extortion Bill?
That's a new low.

“ I had planned to donate to a museum in the PI, but I was in contact with a putri in the government. But she suggested that if I did donate it to a museum, it would not wind up in a museum where people could enjoy it, but it would get into the wrong hands and it would be hidden in a private collection.

So I have a friend at the Smithsonian who has a very powerful vault for safekeeping, not even in my state. I had threats that it must be returned to the PI or I would be harmed.”

That’s so sad. Winston Churchill once wrote something to the effect that Civilization is when a nation’s leaders don’t seek to get elected in order to use office to steal the country’s resources.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Rick

Extortion Bill?
That's a new low.

Some people can get excited.

Are there still Jihads?


I have not been collecting for a while. I am keeping the top tier pieces, but may sell some of the just below top tier, but don't know when to begin. I have over 100 plus PI weapons.

I am collecting very old cars. 1908 Thomas Flyer (Red); 1910 Thomas Flyer (Green) and 1913 Marmon Speedster.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I had threats that it must be returned to the PI or I would be harmed.

This is pretty hardcore illegal stuff Bill. I do hope you have taken steps to protect yourself as well as this dagger. You should be sure to report as much as possible about the person or people who have threatened you including any contact information you might have on them.
While i do indeed agree that this dagger is a historical piece that would be well served by a spot in a museum, the actual circumstances of its original acquisition need to be further investigated. Was this taken from General Leandro Fullon or was it gifted to the ancestor General of your good friend? While Fullon at first fought against the invading American forces he was eventually appointed as part of their established government.
"After the civil government was organized by the American regime, he was appointed Provincial Governor of Antique on April 15, 1901, a post that he held until his death in Oct. 16, 1904."
If this was a case of a weapon taken by force from this prominent Filipino General perhaps it does indeed belong either with Fullon's descendants or in a Filipino museum as it is part of their history. But if it was a gift to the American General from him then it has become part of that person's history and was the rightful property of you old friend to do as he saw fit to do with it. I might suggest you question your old friend more on these questions if possible and see if you can establish some timeline for all this.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I had planned to donate to a museum in the PI, but I was in contact with a putri in the government. But she suggested that if I did donate it to a museum, it would not wind up in a museum where people could enjoy it, but it would get into the wrong hands and it would be hidden in a private collection.

So I have a friend at the Smithsonian who has a very powerful vault for safekeeping, not even in my state. I had threats that it must be returned to the PI or I would be harmed.

That's alarming news. I second the suggestion of the others and recommend that you take legal steps against this. If it was a Filipino who threatened you, then I deeply apologize. Some of my fellow citizens can be unruly, not to mention corrupt.

[Victrix]

I think if I was to donate something to a museum I would insist on writing a contract which states that 1) the recipient is the museum, and 2) the item must be publicly displayed.

It’s quite annoying when visiting historical sites in post-revolutionary societies where it’s only the empty buildings left and all the content is long gone (destroyed or stolen).

One solution to Bill M’s dilemma might be to lend the item to an Asian museum located in the US, with a long term view to returning it to its country of origin in the future when governance has improved?

[Battara]

Please protect yourself Bill!

Humans can be the stupidest of creatures.

I was told at the Antiques Road Show here in town years ago that I needed to keep my stuff for now because if I ever offered any of my stuff to PI museums, they would do in through the front door and out through the back door.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I had threats that it must be returned to the PI or I would be harmed.

Unbelievable!!

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I had planned to donate to a museum in the PI, but I was in contact with a putri in the government. But she suggested that if I did donate it to a museum, it would not wind up in a museum where people could enjoy it, but it would get into the wrong hands and it would be hidden in a private collection.

So I have a friend at the Smithsonian who has a very powerful vault for safekeeping, not even in my state. I had threats that it must be returned to the PI or I would be harmed.

One solution could be to sell the item to a private foundation in PI which agrees to keep it on public display for the benefit of society. Many years ago when I was visiting Manila I remember Ayala Museum in Makati, which is run by the private Ayala Foundation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayala_Museum. It showcases PI history and culture with several floors of well organized exhibits. I think the Ayala Museum might take good care of the item. Incidentally I also remember visiting the groundfloor restauarant for lunch and eating pork ceviche which was out of this world.

[Will M]

The majority of historical items are in private hands. No guarantee this dagger would be displayed as many museums have up to 90% of their stock in long term preservation. What may seem valuable and historical to us may not to a museum curator. Weapons have taken a back seat as far as displays and less interesting items (to us) are displayed.
I would keep it and enjoy it or sell it at a good specialized auction to realize its full price potential.
As someone said here that this sort of thing will exit the rear museum door.
Even with a paper showing you gifted the item many of them disappear over time and not compensation or reason is ever given.

[Pinoy Blade Hunter]

exquisite piece. would you mind if i may ask for some measurements? thank you