A tiller/stick cannon for comments

Shakethetrees · 20th October 2016, 09:47 PM

A wonderful thread! Matchlock would be weighing in I'm sure.

To see the x ray scan that leaves a clear image of the hidden construction details is something we only dreamed of just a few years ago.

Thanks!

fernando · 21st October 2016, 11:34 AM

Amen to that ... both sentences

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Marcus den toom · 21st October 2016, 12:20 PM

Thank you very much Nando for these X rays of the Tillered hand cannon. It confirms the idea i had about these guns that they are of wound band iron. Combined with the reeinforcing iron bands this could be one of the earliest tiller guns in the world. Wound iron barrels where one of the first type (together with cast brass) and would be the main way to go up to the early 15th century. The only thing withholding me from dating it to the early 15th century for sure is the flared muzzle ring. From the top of my head these where in fashion from about 1430s upward to the 1460s..

The construction of the breech reminds me of some of my tiller hand cannons as well as the montjuic hand cannons, both in Michael's collection and mine. They could be related?

fernando · 22nd October 2016, 07:39 PM

Well Marcus, concerning the origin of this gun and that of its relatives; we may know their provenance but the origin is another thing. We know that a series of these items were property of Montjuic Castle, but not that they have had any action in that place. We also know that museums do not necessarily exhibit the material of the castles where they are situated, the items in exhibiton being a product of donors ... collectors, families and so. Remember the inscription painted in one of these pieces, from Michl's collection (see post #89 and previous):
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=SARRIA
Also interesting to notice a detail in the breech construction (shank) in another specimen provenant from Montjuic, also from Michl's collection (see picture attached).
I would then, based on their museum provenance region, donor origins and all, reduce the range of possibilities for the origin of these tiller guns to being Spanish but, what do i know ?

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22nd October 2016, 07:39 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,647	Well Marcus, concerning the origin of this gun and that of its relatives; we may know their provenance but the origin is another thing. We know that a series of these items were property of Montjuic Castle, but not that they have had any action in that place. We also know that museums do not necessarily exhibit the material of the castles where they are situated, the items in exhibiton being a product of donors ... collectors, families and so. Remember the inscription painted in one of these pieces, from Michl's collection (see post #89 and previous): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=SARRIA Also interesting to notice a detail in the breech construction (shank) in another specimen provenant from Montjuic, also from Michl's collection (see picture attached). I would then, based on their museum provenance region, donor origins and all, reduce the range of possibilities for the origin of these tiller guns to being Spanish but, what do i know ? . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 24th February 2022 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Paragraph editing

20th October 2016, 09:47 PM	#1
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	A wonderful thread! Matchlock would be weighing in I'm sure. To see the x ray scan that leaves a clear image of the hidden construction details is something we only dreamed of just a few years ago. Thanks!

21st October 2016, 11:34 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,647	Amen to that ... both sentences .

21st October 2016, 12:20 PM	#3
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 494	Thank you very much Nando for these X rays of the Tillered hand cannon. It confirms the idea i had about these guns that they are of wound band iron. Combined with the reeinforcing iron bands this could be one of the earliest tiller guns in the world. Wound iron barrels where one of the first type (together with cast brass) and would be the main way to go up to the early 15th century. The only thing withholding me from dating it to the early 15th century for sure is the flared muzzle ring. From the top of my head these where in fashion from about 1430s upward to the 1460s.. The construction of the breech reminds me of some of my tiller hand cannons as well as the montjuic hand cannons, both in Michael's collection and mine. They could be related?