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[gp]

Concerning " Baba Kamas" :

in many slavic countries :

Kama means knife
Baba means grandmother….

but baba also is used in “ baba Jaga “ : a magical wild dark witchy deadly woman

When citing names one has to incorporate the cultural and linguistic significance in order to explain the item ‘ s name and understand.

This is quite typical for many slavic regions and countries to give nicknames, which in oneway might symbolize something with regards to the use or nature of the object or another way gives a touchy, sometimes kind, sometimes mischievous or quite serious or slightly humoristic name to a deadly weapon.
A “ Granny ‘ s knife “ or even “ the witch’s dagger “ is quite sarcastic or ironical in a way for a deadly weapon….

FYI : Not only objects but also people have met with this change of name …
(think of the Ossetian Ioseb Jughashvili or the Croat Josip Broz)

[ariel]

Originally Posted by gp

Concerning " Baba Kamas" :

in many slavic countries :

Kama means knife
Baba means grandmother….

but baba also is used in “ baba Jaga “ : a magical wild dark witchy deadly woman

When citing names one has to incorporate the cultural and linguistic significance in order to explain the item ‘ s name and understand.

This is quite typical for many slavic regions and countries to give nicknames, which in oneway might symbolize something with regards to the use or nature of the object or another way gives a touchy, sometimes kind, sometimes mischievous or quite serious or slightly humoristic name to a deadly weapon.
A “ Granny ‘ s knife “ or even “ the witch’s dagger “ is quite sarcastic or ironical in a way for a deadly weapon….

FYI : Not only objects but also people have met with this change of name …
(think of the Ossetian Ioseb Jughashvili or the Croat Josip Broz)

Just a digression:
Kama is not Slavic, it is Turkish for dagger.
Baba in Russian is either a peasant woman or a grandmother.
Baba in Turkish is “father”, buyuk baba is “grandfather”.

And the only way for a grandmother to become a grandfather is to grow a pair of testicles:-)))

[gp]

Originally Posted by ariel

Just a digression:
Kama is not Slavic, it is Turkish for dagger.
Baba in Russian is either a peasant woman or a grandmother.
Baba in Turkish is “father”, buyuk baba is “grandfather”.

And the only way for a grandmother to become a grandfather is to grow a pair of testicles:-)))

Originally Posted by ariel

Just a digression:
Kama is not Slavin, it is Turkish for dagger.
Baba in Russian is either a peasant woman or a grandmother.
Baba in Turkish is “father”, buyuk baba is “grandfather”.

And the only way for a grandmother to become a grandfather is to grow a pair of testicles:-)))

If you go to the Balkans my dear friend….

1. Kama is used for knives…be assured! Not only now but since centuries actually.
It might be of Ottoman origin, but like English has many Latin and French words…languages evolve….you wouldn’t call office not an English word but French, now would you…?

Latest formal use of kama was the Kama Division of the SS which existed out of Albanians, and had the knife as their symbol, similar by the way as the Handcar SS division from the former Yugoslavia had a handcar as symbol and nothing to do with Turkish….although the name originates from it….
Just look up the dictionaries of these countries !

2. Concerning baba… in Serbo- Croatian, now Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian…baba stands for grandmother…
Geographical places like Babin Zub in BiH and Babin Kuk in Croatia clearly stand for grandmother….
Zub = tooth and the rock resembles a tooth of a grandmother without any other teeth than just one corner tooth

https://27crags.com/crags/babin-zub


Kuk = hip and has an equal function ….and actually a beautiful holidayplace for well to do people.
Nicknames…just creative way of people with language !
Babin is genitiv of baba

and instead of making a silly sexistic remark, you’d better check your statements with reality:again check a simple translator online…

https://www.contextualdictionary.com...n-english/baba

https://www.contextualdictionary.com...n-english/BABA

https://glosbe.com/bs/en/baba

[ariel]

OК, we agree on the meaning of “ baba” in Slavic languages and by definition on its meaning in Turkish. My joke was never sexist, I can assure you as a professional endocrinologist.

[gp]

Originally Posted by ariel

OК, we agree on the meaning of “ baba” in Slavic languages and by definition on its meaning in Turkish. My joke was never sexist, I can assure you as a professional endocrinologist.

discussing weapons is what I was doing with regards to " Baba Kamas"

Explaining it might be nicknamed "grandmother's knife " based upon the tradition in the Slavic world to find nicknames one way or another.

Apologies if you didn't get my explanation...nor was it my intention to insult you on the "baba " translation, moreover just to enlarge your knowledge from a limited perspective which it was appaerantly. Sorry my dear friend !

Bottom line, short and simple: one ought never exclude the influence of language and culture....What means one thing in Russian, might mean something complete different in Serbian.

[gp]

Nor do many do think your "grandmother-grandfather" remark to be my personal grievance but of rather bad taste to insulting.
FYI: I invited some institutions in the Balkans to join here but they are not amused as scolars, publicists and some of them being female .

[gp]

back to kama's ..... although the word dates back to Ottoman times but actually Armenian origin , see # 25 of http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kAma but in & after WWII I found out recently, it was used also not only by the SS brigade kama but also Tito' s resistance and later in Balkan countries: officially in the JNA / Yugoslav Army since 1951 untill recently during the tragic events in Bosnia.

First resistance to and later collaborating the occupation of Serbia in WWWII f.i. this kama or qama by Draze Michalovic Cetniks:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27648

In the book "Hladno oružje Srbije, Crne Gore i Jugoslavije 19-20 vek" (Melee /cold (steel) weapons of Serbia, Montenegro and Yugoslavia 19th-20th century) by Branko Bogdanović, you can find this illustration (page 143)


And on pages 48-49 the text says that after WW2, hand to hand combat got special attention and was under Soviet influence. At the beginning of the 1960s, the Army got a new homemade knife (kama) M.1951 (j), based on the Soviet army knife (NR)40.
The price of a single M51 knife was 25 dinara (cca 7 DEM), according to a price list from 1.7.1970.
It was meant for the soldiers (fighters) belonging to scout, saboteur and paratrooper units.
Its fiery baptism was 4 decades after being made (by then regarded as old, and mostly given to units of the Territorial defense - Teritorijjalna obrana /TO/), in the hands of the enemy of the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA).


During a brief conflict (The Ten-Day War), in June 1991, the Territorial defense issued this knife to all soldiers/fighter who were issued the M56 submachine gun - because of lack of M56 bayonets.

the No. 69 stands for Military workshop No.69, Zagreb, Croatia

FYI; the text in the book mentions "kamom"which is dativ for kama in Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian

[OsobistGB]

Originally Posted by gp

Concerning " Baba Kamas" :

in many slavic countries :

Kama means knife
Baba means grandmother….

but baba also is used in “ baba Jaga “ : a magical wild dark witchy deadly woman

When citing names one has to incorporate the cultural and linguistic significance in order to explain the item ‘ s name and understand.

This is quite typical for many slavic regions and countries to give nicknames, which in oneway might symbolize something with regards to the use or nature of the object or another way gives a touchy, sometimes kind, sometimes mischievous or quite serious or slightly humoristic name to a deadly weapon.
A “ Granny ‘ s knife “ or even “ the witch’s dagger “ is quite sarcastic or ironical in a way for a deadly weapon….

FYI : Not only objects but also people have met with this change of name …
(think of the Ossetian Ioseb Jughashvili or the Croat Josip Broz)

I have no idea of your nationality and of your linguistic abilities Баба / baba -actually translates as grandmother , but here in this case the word comes from the Turkish language and means father. I actually know many cases where google translate can put you in an awkward position

[Jim McDougall]

Its hard to believe we have been 'discussing' these curious swords (using a safe term) for nearly two decades, and this is as far as we've gotten. Naturally this has become one of the premier bouts of the much loved 'name game' which has given us quite a lot of consternation in more 'discussions' than can be remembered.

When Tony Tirri compiled his most helpful reference in 2004, in his entry of these, he used a Russian reference as one of the two cites he provided, in which these were termed 'khopesh from North Africa.

Just wanted to add this from British Museum, top example. There is a degree of similarity in the recurve of the blade. Interesting, 19th dynasty to 19th century.