Spanish colonial short sword?

Yvain · 1st November 2023, 07:58 PM

Thanks for your answers!

It is rather hard to measure the edge since I don't have calipers at hand, but I definitely see no grind, and the edge is roughly 1mm thick in the first half of the blade, roughly 0.7mm thick on the second part, and it thickens back to 2mm at the point.

Jim, thanks a lot for the detailed information! What do you think of this specimen in itself?

Jim McDougall · 1st November 2023, 08:47 PM

Fernando, thank you for posting those breath taking sabers! and as always, adding the colorful terms for these features. It really adds to the dynamics of descriptions to have such terms in local and period vernacular.

Yvain, I like the dirk very much as I have always been drawn to the rustic charm of these kinds of simple weapons. These kinds of weapons are more likely to be historically associated with the ever present strife in much of Latin America with insurgencies and embattled governments. As of course most insurgent forces were comprised basically of local peasantry, and these kinds of arms often became ersatz weapons used as they were all that was at hand.

These are not much covered in the literature, but this could be around turn of the century, possibly as early as Spanish American war, but more likely a bit later. They must have been produced in good number as they have turned up quite a bit over the years.

kronckew · 3rd November 2023, 11:17 PM

My sinle edged espada ancha, for comparison. It is razor sharp. One of my favourites.

Jim McDougall · 3rd November 2023, 11:35 PM

Nice Wayne!
These hilts really got around!

Yvain · 4th November 2023, 06:59 PM

Thanks Kronckew, very interesting to see this hilt paired with a more traditional Mexican machete blade and scabbard.

I'm back home and thus have access to my (basic) callipers, which allowed me to confirm that the lenticular blade of my sword has some distal taper, being 4mm thick at the spine near the guard, and 2mm thick at the tip.

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2023, 10:18 PM

The so called espada ancha as noted, has many variations, and these were often made by local blacksmiths, often using repurposed components and locally forged blades.
The term 'espada ancha' is actually a modern misnomer which came into use in the 1960s after misunderstanding that term used in 18th c regulations being translated. In local parlance in period, these were termed 'machete' , as per Woodward (1946).

This grouping shows just how widely ranged the variants of these primarily utilitarian weapons were, including the one at the top which was comprised of a cut down dragoon blade; three bar cavalry hilt and the grip of an old briquet.
Some of these like the horn grip with largely full length dragoon blade were popular in the late 18th c. from Sinaloa into Alta California.

Yvain · 6th November 2023, 11:33 AM

Very interesting grouping Jim ! From your own collection ? The one at the top with the briquet hilt is very cool, I'd like to make a repro of it !

3rd November 2023, 11:17 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,152	My sinle edged espada ancha, for comparison. It is razor sharp. One of my favourites. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 3rd November 2023 at 11:42 PM.

4th November 2023, 10:18 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	ESPADA ANCHAS The so called espada ancha as noted, has many variations, and these were often made by local blacksmiths, often using repurposed components and locally forged blades. The term 'espada ancha' is actually a modern misnomer which came into use in the 1960s after misunderstanding that term used in 18th c regulations being translated. In local parlance in period, these were termed 'machete' , as per Woodward (1946). This grouping shows just how widely ranged the variants of these primarily utilitarian weapons were, including the one at the top which was comprised of a cut down dragoon blade; three bar cavalry hilt and the grip of an old briquet. Some of these like the horn grip with largely full length dragoon blade were popular in the late 18th c. from Sinaloa into Alta California. Attached Images

1st November 2023, 07:58 PM	#1
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 173	Thanks for your answers! It is rather hard to measure the edge since I don't have calipers at hand, but I definitely see no grind, and the edge is roughly 1mm thick in the first half of the blade, roughly 0.7mm thick on the second part, and it thickens back to 2mm at the point. Jim, thanks a lot for the detailed information! What do you think of this specimen in itself?

1st November 2023, 08:47 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Fernando, thank you for posting those breath taking sabers! and as always, adding the colorful terms for these features. It really adds to the dynamics of descriptions to have such terms in local and period vernacular. Yvain, I like the dirk very much as I have always been drawn to the rustic charm of these kinds of simple weapons. These kinds of weapons are more likely to be historically associated with the ever present strife in much of Latin America with insurgencies and embattled governments. As of course most insurgent forces were comprised basically of local peasantry, and these kinds of arms often became ersatz weapons used as they were all that was at hand. These are not much covered in the literature, but this could be around turn of the century, possibly as early as Spanish American war, but more likely a bit later. They must have been produced in good number as they have turned up quite a bit over the years.

3rd November 2023, 11:35 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Nice Wayne! These hilts really got around!

4th November 2023, 06:59 PM	#5
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 173	Thanks Kronckew, very interesting to see this hilt paired with a more traditional Mexican machete blade and scabbard. I'm back home and thus have access to my (basic) callipers, which allowed me to confirm that the lenticular blade of my sword has some distal taper, being 4mm thick at the spine near the guard, and 2mm thick at the tip.

6th November 2023, 11:33 AM	#7
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 173	Very interesting grouping Jim ! From your own collection ? The one at the top with the briquet hilt is very cool, I'd like to make a repro of it !