Strange Shield for Discussion

RobT · 7th February 2024, 01:54 AM

A Alnakkus,

Thanks for the diameter. Armed with that information, I did a google search to see what the typical jingasa diameter was. I only looked at jingasa shaped like your item and the items in the other two threads. I did find one jingasa with an 18.5 inch diameter and three with 17 to 17.5 inch diameters but the bulk of the examples were about 16 to 16.5 inches. The next most common diameter was 14 to 14.5 inches.

I don’t believe the reasons you cite to discount my theory are valid because, if the item started out as a jingasa, the current close together handles and scanty padding would not have been original to the piece but only would have been added when the item was repurposed from a hat to a shield.

Perhaps with your permission (and subject to the moderator’s approval), a request could be placed on the Nihonto Message Board asking them to have a look at this thread (and the other two). If any folks could give us a yea or nay on the jingasa theory it would be them.

Sincerely,
RobT

A.alnakkas · 7th February 2024, 02:40 AM

Thanks Rob, I am quite interested in their information so please do!

Ian · 8th February 2024, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

A Alnakkus, ...

Perhaps with your permission (and subject to the moderator’s approval), a request could be placed on the Nihonto Message Board asking them to have a look at this thread (and the other two). If any folks could give us a yea or nay on the jingasa theory it would be them.

Sincerely,
RobT

Rob, I don't see any problem with contacting the Nihonto Message Board and requesting an opinion on this item, provided A A is okay with that. Ian

A.alnakkas · 8th February 2024, 11:38 AM

The construction of the grips and material used gives some info on how its used? all the available examples for us to examine have the same construction with one strap made of leather and the other made of wood.

RobT · 9th February 2024, 12:00 AM

Hi All,

I posted an ID request in the katchu section of the Nihonto Message Board. Hopefully, we will either get a positive ID or be able to rule out the Japanese jingasa theory.

Sincerely,
RobT

Lee · 9th February 2024, 02:43 AM

Here is a link to the NMB thread:
https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topi...sible-jingasa/

A jingasa was certainly my own first thought when this item was posted.

Gavin Nugent · 9th February 2024, 04:53 AM

I ran a broad image search over "Inside a jingasa".

It seems all I found has mounting points for the chin straps and head pads that all look much further spaced than this hand grip, yet none of these shields show any indication of having such broader mounting points originally?

RobT · 11th February 2024, 03:01 PM

Hi All,
There has been one response from the Nihonto Message Board. The respondent supports my opinion with, “my vote is for Jingasa, in origin at least”. I have requested that other members weigh in, especially with any information they may have about the design motif on the shield currently under discussion as well as the motifs on the two shields in the previous threads.

A Alnakkas,
I think the wooden grip is rigidly attached to the shield to prevent it from wobbling when hit with an opponent’s weapon. The leather grip is designed to be pulled to the wooden grip when the user’s fist is clenched, thus allowing the user to hold the shield rigidly.

Gavin Nugent,
From what I can see online there appear to be at least two methods for mounting jingasa straps and padding. In one method, the mounting points are on a circular and slightly domed metal plate attached to the inside of the jingasa and on the other the mounting points are part of the inside of the jingasa. I think the metal plate method may have been used when the jingasa had a metal finial and the other method was used on jingasa without finials. There may have been more attachment methods. In any event, the areas cut away on the inside of the shields in the previous threads appear to me to have been sufficiently large to have accommodated jingasa mounting points. The shield currently under discussion has a hole in the top so it may have used the finial/mounting plate method. In this case, the finial and plate could have been removed to allow the shield grips and padding to be added.

Sincerely,
RobT

7th February 2024, 01:54 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 456	A Proposal A Alnakkus, Thanks for the diameter. Armed with that information, I did a google search to see what the typical jingasa diameter was. I only looked at jingasa shaped like your item and the items in the other two threads. I did find one jingasa with an 18.5 inch diameter and three with 17 to 17.5 inch diameters but the bulk of the examples were about 16 to 16.5 inches. The next most common diameter was 14 to 14.5 inches. I don’t believe the reasons you cite to discount my theory are valid because, if the item started out as a jingasa, the current close together handles and scanty padding would not have been original to the piece but only would have been added when the item was repurposed from a hat to a shield. Perhaps with your permission (and subject to the moderator’s approval), a request could be placed on the Nihonto Message Board asking them to have a look at this thread (and the other two). If any folks could give us a yea or nay on the jingasa theory it would be them. Sincerely, RobT

8th February 2024, 11:38 AM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,339	The construction of the grips and material used gives some info on how its used? all the available examples for us to examine have the same construction with one strap made of leather and the other made of wood. Attached Images

9th February 2024, 12:00 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 456	Info Request Sent Hi All, I posted an ID request in the katchu section of the Nihonto Message Board. Hopefully, we will either get a positive ID or be able to rule out the Japanese jingasa theory. Sincerely, RobT

11th February 2024, 03:01 PM	#8
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 456	Nihonto Message Board Response Hi All, There has been one response from the Nihonto Message Board. The respondent supports my opinion with, “my vote is for Jingasa, in origin at least”. I have requested that other members weigh in, especially with any information they may have about the design motif on the shield currently under discussion as well as the motifs on the two shields in the previous threads. A Alnakkas, I think the wooden grip is rigidly attached to the shield to prevent it from wobbling when hit with an opponent’s weapon. The leather grip is designed to be pulled to the wooden grip when the user’s fist is clenched, thus allowing the user to hold the shield rigidly. Gavin Nugent, From what I can see online there appear to be at least two methods for mounting jingasa straps and padding. In one method, the mounting points are on a circular and slightly domed metal plate attached to the inside of the jingasa and on the other the mounting points are part of the inside of the jingasa. I think the metal plate method may have been used when the jingasa had a metal finial and the other method was used on jingasa without finials. There may have been more attachment methods. In any event, the areas cut away on the inside of the shields in the previous threads appear to me to have been sufficiently large to have accommodated jingasa mounting points. The shield currently under discussion has a hole in the top so it may have used the finial/mounting plate method. In this case, the finial and plate could have been removed to allow the shield grips and padding to be added. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 11th February 2024 at 04:43 PM. Reason: add'l info

7th February 2024, 02:40 AM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,339	Thanks Rob, I am quite interested in their information so please do!

9th February 2024, 02:43 AM	#6
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 898	Here is a link to the NMB thread: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topi...sible-jingasa/ A jingasa was certainly my own first thought when this item was posted.

9th February 2024, 04:53 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I ran a broad image search over "Inside a jingasa". It seems all I found has mounting points for the chin straps and head pads that all look much further spaced than this hand grip, yet none of these shields show any indication of having such broader mounting points originally?