Garuda Kris

xasterix · 17th May 2022, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanibelSwassa

Kino,

Thank you so much for sharing the tapestry pic!! That’s a great reference piece. I would agree with Xasterix that his Okir is a direct match back to the royal line used as shown in the pics he shared. Which is an incredible find as to providence. I am excited by the sharing for resources and ideas.

Hi sir, can I see the butt-pommel of your krises? I might come upon more insignias, I'll let you know if any of those match.

SanibelSwassa · 17th May 2022, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi sir, can I see the butt-pommel of your krises? I might come upon more insignias, I'll let you know if any of those match.

Here you go! Let me know if you uncover any interesting similarities with other Okir.

kino · 19th May 2022, 01:15 AM

Here’s another hilt to throw in the mix.
Too bad a detailed image of the hilt is unavailable.

SanibelSwassa · 19th May 2022, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Here’s another hilt to throw in the mix.
Too bad a detailed image of the hilt is unavailable.

Great pic! Wish we knew who had that bad boy!!! Did you find that on this forum?? I think I’ve seen that pic before, but don’t remember from where.

kino · 19th May 2022, 02:23 AM

I believe I hijacked the photo from one of the discussions here on the Forums.
I think it came from an old book printed in France.

Gustav · 19th May 2022, 11:24 AM

A complete, high quality, and possibly early form of this hilt:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13785

xasterix · 19th May 2022, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

A complete, high quality, and possibly early form of this hilt:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13785

Thanks for this, was just looking at this yesterday. There's remarkable similarity regarding the carving placement (different okir though) between that kris with mine.

SanibelSwassa · 25th May 2022, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

A complete, high quality, and possibly early form of this hilt:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13785

Wow… another great thread! Your comments in that original thread linking back to a possible Chinese connection to this form is compelling. It also ties into the know time period placements and the potential origin of the hilt form. Obviously it continued to migrate to some extent, but these seem to be far more rare that the common forms.

Thank you so much for the light pointed in another direction!!

Gavin Nugent · 5th March 2023, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

I believe I hijacked the photo from one of the discussions here on the Forums.
I think it came from an old book printed in France.

P. Holstein,Contribution à l'Etude des Armes Orientales, Paris 1931

Gavin Nugent · 23rd March 2023, 01:18 PM

I'm surprised no one picked up on this for the archives... an absolute stunner in every respect.

kino · 24th March 2023, 02:10 AM

Here’s an odd one.
Small in size. Brass / copper alloy blade. Carving on the hilt could be a Tree of Life motif.

kai · 24th March 2023, 03:40 PM

Hello Albert,

You already added pics of this piece earlier in this thread.

Here's another example with heavily stylized pommel (from Lonna's & Dave's collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17894).

Regards,
Kai

kai · 24th March 2023, 04:18 PM

Hello Gavin,

Quote:

I'm surprised no one picked up on this for the archives... an absolute stunner in every respect.

I agree that this is a great piece.

However, I believe it does not belong to this thread as the pommel is of a different style: Clearly this one is crafted in a highly decorated sarimanok/kakatua style.

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 24th March 2023, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Gavin,

I agree that this is a great piece.

However, I believe it does not belong to this thread as the pommel is of a different style: Clearly this one is crafted in a highly decorated sarimanok/kakatua style.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

I respectfully disagree with regards to exclusion.

Perhaps these images grouped together, they may highlight the importance of this example within context of the discussion.

Apart from the side panels highlighted, looking at the IFICAH example in detail there is a tiny little Bunja Tanjong flower where one may expect an eye to appear, (Refer to the other Sarawak carvings shared and the British Museum Kampilan notations).

In isolation it may mean nothing more than this is a Malay states thing, but seen in the last image, similar appear on the top faces of these Kris/Sundang too, and also within some side panels.

A recent discussion with a fellow collector pointed out that these may also be the Catmon flower seen in Visayan carvings, yet it seems 8 out 10 Visayan carvers do not include the Pistil in their motifs, nor is a weapon of this type typically found there.

Gavin

Gavin Nugent · 4th March 2023, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Here’s another hilt to throw in the mix.
Too bad a detailed image of the hilt is unavailable.

The best I can do with the image from the book...hope it helps

SanibelSwassa · 4th March 2023, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

The best I can do with the image from the book...hope it helps

Well the detailed pics from your new piece will definitely expand the discussion!! My thoughts on these pieces are far from definitive but I still feel the distinct subset of this form is significant.

Gavin Nugent · 4th September 2023, 05:29 PM

Another popped up on social media recently, though to drop it in here.

Does anyone know the significance of the three binding rings around the base, waist and shoulders of these?

Gavin Nugent · 5th September 2023, 06:49 AM

A previous thread relating to one of the first in this thread presented here for discussion.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4443

Seems a long time member previously owned it.

I'm definitely on board with Michael's Sabah assessment.

These continue to be discussed offline where more ideas and data are passed about.

I see them thus far as Labuan influenced too when looking at the top motif on the crown, it is a reoccuring theme from the region, just as that design is also seen in Sabah weaving too.

Some aspects of the motifs are seen in old Bugis drawings and carving which make sense given the large sea faring nation and the Maritime Silk Road running through Indonesia and SEA, but overall the style is unique.

Brunei being the longest power base behind the regions and the English disruptions in the 19th century, it makes sense when seeing these on both sides of the fence so to speak, as I believe there are a couple that saw service under the British navy, and others, as noted at the start of this thread as being taken from Sulu pirates on the Sabah coast lines by Naval staff on various vessels

David · 12th September 2023, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Another popped up on social media recently, though to drop it in here.

Does anyone know the significance of the three binding rings around the base, waist and shoulders of these?

Well, i hate to sound so mundane, aside from their beauty, aren't they functional, for a better grip on the hilt?

Ian · 13th September 2023, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, i hate to sound so mundane, aside from their beauty, aren't they functional, for a better grip on the hilt?

I agree David. However, function can have some elegance to it.

Gavin Nugent · 13th September 2023, 09:59 AM

Thanks Gents.

I can appreciate this given space between 4 fingers, and be swayed to consider this but when you consider examples such as this;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=13

There is no practical application like grip enhancement?

And this one in Kino's collection, does the odd spacing really provide that much of a better grip when the hooked pommel provides just as much?

Idle thoughts thrown out for discussion.....

19th May 2022, 01:15 AM	#3
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 981	Here’s another hilt to throw in the mix. Too bad a detailed image of the hilt is unavailable. Attached Images

23rd March 2023, 01:18 PM	#10
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I'm surprised no one picked up on this for the archives... an absolute stunner in every respect. Attached Images

24th March 2023, 02:10 AM	#11
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 981	Here’s an odd one. Small in size. Brass / copper alloy blade. Carving on the hilt could be a Tree of Life motif. Attached Images

24th March 2023, 03:40 PM	#12
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,221	Hello Albert, You already added pics of this piece earlier in this thread. Here's another example with heavily stylized pommel (from Lonna's & Dave's collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17894). Regards, Kai Attached Images

4th September 2023, 05:29 PM	#17
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Another popped up on social media recently, though to drop it in here. Does anyone know the significance of the three binding rings around the base, waist and shoulders of these? Attached Images

19th May 2022, 02:23 AM	#5
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 981	I believe I hijacked the photo from one of the discussions here on the Forums. I think it came from an old book printed in France.

19th May 2022, 11:24 AM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,201	A complete, high quality, and possibly early form of this hilt: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13785

5th September 2023, 06:49 AM	#18
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A previous thread A previous thread relating to one of the first in this thread presented here for discussion. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4443 Seems a long time member previously owned it. I'm definitely on board with Michael's Sabah assessment. These continue to be discussed offline where more ideas and data are passed about. I see them thus far as Labuan influenced too when looking at the top motif on the crown, it is a reoccuring theme from the region, just as that design is also seen in Sabah weaving too. Some aspects of the motifs are seen in old Bugis drawings and carving which make sense given the large sea faring nation and the Maritime Silk Road running through Indonesia and SEA, but overall the style is unique. Brunei being the longest power base behind the regions and the English disruptions in the 19th century, it makes sense when seeing these on both sides of the fence so to speak, as I believe there are a couple that saw service under the British navy, and others, as noted at the start of this thread as being taken from Sulu pirates on the Sabah coast lines by Naval staff on various vessels

13th September 2023, 09:59 AM	#21
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Gents. I can appreciate this given space between 4 fingers, and be swayed to consider this but when you consider examples such as this; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=13 There is no practical application like grip enhancement? And this one in Kino's collection, does the odd spacing really provide that much of a better grip when the hooked pommel provides just as much? Idle thoughts thrown out for discussion.....