inuit knives

ausjulius · 5th June 2008, 11:13 PM

some pictures of inuit knives most dating for the 19th centuary

Jim McDougall · 6th June 2008, 12:50 AM

Great!
Any comments? notes on where they are from ? observations?
Thank you for posting these.

ausjulius · 6th June 2008, 04:24 AM

they are from canada , the are all inuit.. the large knives in the single fotos are all of hardened steel, all but one of the knvies appears to be inuit forged.. or gorged in their style, the large single edged butchering knife appears to be forged in a western style, as the blade is to somth to be forged on a stone anvil

it is proably not forged by a european person though as the tang is quite odd.. and also it is single beveled , that is sharpe only on one side, it was however forged on a steel anvil,,

the 2 large knives,, one dagger/ short sword and the butchering knife, both have 2 peice tangs.. one tod connecting the blade to the handle then a twin pronged tang mad eof bronze comming from that to the pommel ,making two pins in the pommel, this odd tang system was popular with the inuit, maybe originaly because of a shortage of mateiral to make the item as long as it can be but later shurly just because of tradition

the other larger dagger, or more correctly short sword, as it is around 55cm long and 5cm wide.. and 6mm thick.... and more sword than dagger...
it is with a full tang with a ring at the end,,.

the grip is wrapped with some plant matieral..
the smaller dagger has two brass pins inlayed in the hilt for what reson it is not known..

the group of copper bladed knives go from big to small the biggest about 30cm in blade length,, these knives are more made for cutting up marine mamals..

the are soft copper..
items are all from 19th centuary, exctpy the largest knife proably 1900-1920s

Tim Simmons · 6th June 2008, 06:15 AM

Very very nice.

The last picture is the one I like best. It is fascinating how objects like this travel the world.

David · 6th June 2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausjulius

they are from canada , the are all inuit.

It should be noted that the Inuit people also inhabit parts of Alaska, Greenland and even parts of Russia as well as the Canadian arctic and sub-arctic.
Canada is a large place. Do you have any idea what part of Canada these come from or what specific Inuit tribe they might belong too?

ausjulius · 6th June 2008, 04:45 PM

hi , the people in russia speek another language than the inuit,, as do some ofo the alaskan peoples..

so technicaly they are not inuit,, ....
although culturaly they are very close..
and most colthing items and toodls are the smae,, ulus are common among northen costal peoples of russia as were specific forms of carving and styles ot tools, it is no doubt that the iunit came in the last 1500-2000 years from russia and moves along sticking to land they were used to ,,
there was a much better understanding of metals and thier use by the iuit than by any of the north american nomad folk.. aswell as the inuit tools and bows which were far superior.. ( the nomadic indians dows are... very weak and only wreald dseigned for short range 10 meters or so.. as the concept and technology was different, ) using composite bows of wood and bone or antler and wood ..as used in siberia.. and making knives and tools form copper in much larger amounts.. although copper was used by the plains indians and other nomads it was proably mostly traded with inuit or other peoples further south or on the east cost,,.as copper spears were common but tools not common atall.

an interesting note when early contact with the inuit occoured there was found to be in some specific isolated areas many groups with european features such as blonde hair and green or gray eyes..
i do recall that there was some opinin that these people were decent or norse people,, that is now proven to be incorrect..

as these features an be observed amoung natives of siberia and islans between russia and north america. and proably are the genetics that are the same as what gives european races these destincted looks.
and no doubt these genetics and also the interest in metal and understanding of its use didt come from recent outide influence but form the asian continent when these people migrated.

the knives are from the northen central part of canada , in the areas speeking the avilimmiutut dialect and the islands between there and greenland ...

the knives here i fotoed in canada they were not in russia :P

interesting i do recall some post along time back maybe on this forum where somebody asked didt the inuit use a large knife.. well mostly they prefered bi long knives.. as weapons and as tools, before the metal became more common and compper was only for the more affluent person large stone knives were also made............

about 30cm blades were normal,,.. and about 6cm wide ...
they were for stabbing and slicing,, and had a stone handle....

they were used as a weapon but mostlikely used for cutting up large mamals aswell if no copper blade could be had.

interestingly the siberiasn natives also like large knives,, both costal people and the inland folk as yakuts and such, they like a large machete like knife, 40-60 cm long, like a giant puukko... i belive in the 18th centuary russian pesants prefered to carry these in the central and eastern parts of russia also.. like amulti tool, weapon , forest tool and butchering large malals. and a ox or moose ...
the siberian natives inland also like pole arms.. like along glave ,, i belive called a palaym .. (could be wrong spelling i forget...) aswell as body armor
the costal peoples prefered more slings and spears and darts and body armor.
i belive the fighting techniques of these folk were quite organised..

having the group split into groups,, heaverly armored foot men with sheials and wooden , leather and bone armor with large back sheilds on,, armed with shears and dart throwers and clubs,, axes,, ect advance while behond them advances slingers with slings hurling rocks,, and throwing darts and shooting arrows,
on the side they snipe more accuratly,, the hand combatants,, wearing the high sheild behind the head to protect of rocks of their comrads as they near their opponants,

these people being only afew kilometers over the sea form alaska,, engaged in organised combat with quite a intent,,
as did the aleutian islanders no boubt the eskimo wer enot a race of pacifists and had before their migration engaguged in these types of combat also.. as these techniques were commom on the coast of alaska..

no doubt the big daggers and sword like items were used to dispatch opponents and not as decoration or for cutting up snow..

Jim McDougall · 7th June 2008, 12:34 AM

Very very nicely done Ausjulius!!! Thats what I'm talkin' about!!
Thank you very much for adding the detail on these most interesting items. This is a little collected and studied field of arms, and it is great to have this kind of information available.
All best regards,
Jim

David · 7th June 2008, 05:54 PM

I don't mean to argue, but according to what i have read the inuit language does exist in Russia, though it is presently endangered. Wikipedia certainly isn't the end-all in research, but here is a good article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_language
I think that certain Russian tribes can safely be counted amongst the Inuit people.
Also, as i mentioned before, Canada is quite a big place, so i ask again, do you know what part of Canada these knives come from? East coast, West, Central? If you don't know that's fine, just curious.
Thanks for all the other great info. Here is another informative article about the Inuit: http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Inuit.html
Here's an article that speaks a little about conflict and warfare between the Inuit and early Viking settlers.
http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/Auth...y/excerpt.html
Here is an interesting series of articles about Inuit warfare written from an Inuit perspective. I think that in general the Inuit did not engage in the type of organized, large scale warfare that took place among more southern Native American tribes, but this didn't make them pacifists. Scroll down to the bottom and read up for continuity:
http://www.nunatsiaq.com/archives/nu...31/nunani.html
Warfare among Inuits was very rare in the more sparsely populated regions where many of them live as on might expect. Certainly their major opponent has always been the elements and their fight to survive and find find food in a rather inhospitable environment.
Jim, while i agree that this is a much less collected area of edged weapons i think that once you start looking for research material you will find that the Inuit have indeed been very well studied and information on their weapons and warfare can be found layered in the vast volumes of books and papers written about these intriguing people.

VANDOO · 7th June 2008, 08:58 PM

VERY INTERESTING AND NEW INFORMATION TO ME AT LEAST

. I WAS AWARE OF THE USE OF ARMOR AND HAD SEEN SOME KNIVES BUT HAD NOT HEARD A DESCRIPTION OF THE ARMOR OR FIGHTING STRADEGY BEFORE. THE WAY THE BATTLES WERE FOUGHT AS WELL AS THE ARMOR WITH BACK SHIELD TO PROTECT THE WARRIOR FROM THROWN OBJECTS FROM HIS OWN SIDE REMINDS ME OF THE GILBERT/KINGSMILL ISLAND ARMOR AND METHODS OF BATTLE.

WAS THE ARMOR SIMULAR TO THESE TWO EXAMPLES FROM THE GILBERTS?

Jim McDougall · 7th June 2008, 10:58 PM

Hi David,
Thank you for clarifying that. What I should have said is that the topic is seldom brought up in general arms discussions, and that it is great to see interest here on these fascinating weapons. As you note, there is indeed some very good information available in a number of earlier anthropological studies, and relatively recently published works on Native American weaponry.

Ausjulius, again, outstanding and informative posts on these!!!

All the best,
Jim

ausjulius · 9th June 2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't mean to argue, but according to what i have read the inuit language does exist in Russia, though it is presently endangered. Wikipedia certainly isn't the end-all in research, but here is a good article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_language
I think that certain Russian tribes can safely be counted amongst the Inuit people.
Also, as i mentioned before, Canada is quite a big place, so i ask again, do you know what part of Canada these knives come from? East coast, West, Central? If you don't know that's fine, just curious.
Thanks for all the other great info. Here is another informative article about the Inuit: http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Inuit.html
Here's an article that speaks a little about conflict and warfare between the Inuit and early Viking settlers.
http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/Auth...y/excerpt.html
Here is an interesting series of articles about Inuit warfare written from an Inuit perspective. I think that in general the Inuit did not engage in the type of organized, large scale warfare that took place among more southern Native American tribes, but this didn't make them pacifists. Scroll down to the bottom and read up for continuity:
http://www.nunatsiaq.com/archives/nu...31/nunani.html
Warfare among Inuits was very rare in the more sparsely populated regions where many of them live as on might expect. Certainly their major opponent has always been the elements and their fight to survive and find find food in a rather inhospitable environment.
Jim, while i agree that this is a much less collected area of edged weapons i think that once you start looking for research material you will find that the Inuit have indeed been very well studied and information on their weapons and warfare can be found layered in the vast volumes of books and papers written about these intriguing people.

it is not the inuit languade or a dialect of, it is a related languag.e. as .. oh english is related wit french ro german.. grammer and words are different , but they are of common origin, but something as spanish and poragese or russian and ukrainian are as the inuit dialects.......

eskimo is not and inuit

ausjulius · 9th June 2008, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

VERY INTERESTING AND NEW INFORMATION TO ME AT LEAST

. I WAS AWARE OF THE USE OF ARMOR AND HAD SEEN SOME KNIVES BUT HAD NOT HEARD A DESCRIPTION OF THE ARMOR OR FIGHTING STRADEGY BEFORE. THE WAY THE BATTLES WERE FOUGHT AS WELL AS THE ARMOR WITH BACK SHIELD TO PROTECT THE WARRIOR FROM THROWN OBJECTS FROM HIS OWN SIDE REMINDS ME OF THE GILBERT/KINGSMILL ISLAND ARMOR AND METHODS OF BATTLE.

WAS THE ARMOR SIMULAR TO THESE TWO EXAMPLES FROM THE GILBERTS?

yes the sibeiran and alaskan natives armour is very like this but made more of bone and wood, leather and fish skin,,,,
also complexed helmets were used, ill look if i can get some pictures ......
the technique as used in some micronesian islands was similar to the one use in the artic,,

David thanks for the norse link was interesting reading ,,.

i would say the the combative technique and weapons of the artic and subartic peoples of north american was far more advance than the plains indians,...
aspecialy the natives ofr alaska and these areas... although these areas realy had rather dense populations once you got out of the artic circle..
i did once read most of north americans native population was concentrated along the western coste of canada and alaska ,, something like 80% aspecialy northen british columbia and southern alaska. before the arrival of syphilius and small pox .
these peoples concept of warfare was much more advanced than the more nomadic plains people.. as most of these folk were seditary.
no doubt the inuit understood these techniques well but had less numbers and materials to use the , they did however use armour and group combative tactics ,, and relyed less of indivudial combat as the plains folk did.. and more on a group of persons armed for a specific task, such as spear throwers and persons with body armour for hand to hand fighting,, ect ect.
no doubt the plains folk were just rather to indivudialistic... and liked each to get in on the action

..
i think social structure played an big part in tactics also,, for exsample the tinglit they were very organised in combat and built defencive wooden fortresses and used body armour and rather organised fighting techniques..

mainly they had a herditory clan system like in the pacific and used slaves and the like.
it is interesting they never had any majoir clashes with the british,, and seem to have fallen mainly to syphilus introduced by traders and sealers.

ausjulius · 9th June 2008, 05:39 AM

bottom pair of knives are carving knives, they are for carvinf bone and wood for making kayaks..
there is a sharpener on a strong attached to the handel,, .. smart idea..

the upper fot it is some general use mens knives they are double edged. and have rougth forged blades, proably beat out with a stone hammer with a rounded head on a stone anvil..
the largest ahs a blade over a foot long.. about 33cm.. one is of copper.. the cutting edges are slightly concave..

5th June 2008, 11:13 PM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 415	inuit knives some pictures of inuit knives most dating for the 19th centuary Attached Images

7th June 2008, 08:58 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VERY INTERESTING AND NEW INFORMATION TO ME AT LEAST . I WAS AWARE OF THE USE OF ARMOR AND HAD SEEN SOME KNIVES BUT HAD NOT HEARD A DESCRIPTION OF THE ARMOR OR FIGHTING STRADEGY BEFORE. THE WAY THE BATTLES WERE FOUGHT AS WELL AS THE ARMOR WITH BACK SHIELD TO PROTECT THE WARRIOR FROM THROWN OBJECTS FROM HIS OWN SIDE REMINDS ME OF THE GILBERT/KINGSMILL ISLAND ARMOR AND METHODS OF BATTLE. WAS THE ARMOR SIMULAR TO THESE TWO EXAMPLES FROM THE GILBERTS? Attached Images

6th June 2008, 12:50 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,757	Great! Any comments? notes on where they are from ? observations? Thank you for posting these.

6th June 2008, 04:24 AM	#3
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 415	they are from canada , the are all inuit.. the large knives in the single fotos are all of hardened steel, all but one of the knvies appears to be inuit forged.. or gorged in their style, the large single edged butchering knife appears to be forged in a western style, as the blade is to somth to be forged on a stone anvil it is proably not forged by a european person though as the tang is quite odd.. and also it is single beveled , that is sharpe only on one side, it was however forged on a steel anvil,, the 2 large knives,, one dagger/ short sword and the butchering knife, both have 2 peice tangs.. one tod connecting the blade to the handle then a twin pronged tang mad eof bronze comming from that to the pommel ,making two pins in the pommel, this odd tang system was popular with the inuit, maybe originaly because of a shortage of mateiral to make the item as long as it can be but later shurly just because of tradition the other larger dagger, or more correctly short sword, as it is around 55cm long and 5cm wide.. and 6mm thick.... and more sword than dagger... it is with a full tang with a ring at the end,,. the grip is wrapped with some plant matieral.. the smaller dagger has two brass pins inlayed in the hilt for what reson it is not known.. the group of copper bladed knives go from big to small the biggest about 30cm in blade length,, these knives are more made for cutting up marine mamals.. the are soft copper.. items are all from 19th centuary, exctpy the largest knife proably 1900-1920s

6th June 2008, 06:15 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Very very nice. The last picture is the one I like best. It is fascinating how objects like this travel the world.

6th June 2008, 04:45 PM	#6
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 415	hi , the people in russia speek another language than the inuit,, as do some ofo the alaskan peoples.. so technicaly they are not inuit,, .... although culturaly they are very close.. and most colthing items and toodls are the smae,, ulus are common among northen costal peoples of russia as were specific forms of carving and styles ot tools, it is no doubt that the iunit came in the last 1500-2000 years from russia and moves along sticking to land they were used to ,, there was a much better understanding of metals and thier use by the iuit than by any of the north american nomad folk.. aswell as the inuit tools and bows which were far superior.. ( the nomadic indians dows are... very weak and only wreald dseigned for short range 10 meters or so.. as the concept and technology was different, ) using composite bows of wood and bone or antler and wood ..as used in siberia.. and making knives and tools form copper in much larger amounts.. although copper was used by the plains indians and other nomads it was proably mostly traded with inuit or other peoples further south or on the east cost,,.as copper spears were common but tools not common atall. an interesting note when early contact with the inuit occoured there was found to be in some specific isolated areas many groups with european features such as blonde hair and green or gray eyes.. i do recall that there was some opinin that these people were decent or norse people,, that is now proven to be incorrect.. as these features an be observed amoung natives of siberia and islans between russia and north america. and proably are the genetics that are the same as what gives european races these destincted looks. and no doubt these genetics and also the interest in metal and understanding of its use didt come from recent outide influence but form the asian continent when these people migrated. the knives are from the northen central part of canada , in the areas speeking the avilimmiutut dialect and the islands between there and greenland ... the knives here i fotoed in canada they were not in russia :P interesting i do recall some post along time back maybe on this forum where somebody asked didt the inuit use a large knife.. well mostly they prefered bi long knives.. as weapons and as tools, before the metal became more common and compper was only for the more affluent person large stone knives were also made............ about 30cm blades were normal,,.. and about 6cm wide ... they were for stabbing and slicing,, and had a stone handle.... they were used as a weapon but mostlikely used for cutting up large mamals aswell if no copper blade could be had. interestingly the siberiasn natives also like large knives,, both costal people and the inland folk as yakuts and such, they like a large machete like knife, 40-60 cm long, like a giant puukko... i belive in the 18th centuary russian pesants prefered to carry these in the central and eastern parts of russia also.. like amulti tool, weapon , forest tool and butchering large malals. and a ox or moose ... the siberian natives inland also like pole arms.. like along glave ,, i belive called a palaym .. (could be wrong spelling i forget...) aswell as body armor the costal peoples prefered more slings and spears and darts and body armor. i belive the fighting techniques of these folk were quite organised.. having the group split into groups,, heaverly armored foot men with sheials and wooden , leather and bone armor with large back sheilds on,, armed with shears and dart throwers and clubs,, axes,, ect advance while behond them advances slingers with slings hurling rocks,, and throwing darts and shooting arrows, on the side they snipe more accuratly,, the hand combatants,, wearing the high sheild behind the head to protect of rocks of their comrads as they near their opponants, these people being only afew kilometers over the sea form alaska,, engaged in organised combat with quite a intent,, as did the aleutian islanders no boubt the eskimo wer enot a race of pacifists and had before their migration engaguged in these types of combat also.. as these techniques were commom on the coast of alaska.. no doubt the big daggers and sword like items were used to dispatch opponents and not as decoration or for cutting up snow..

7th June 2008, 12:34 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,757	Very very nicely done Ausjulius!!! Thats what I'm talkin' about!! Thank you very much for adding the detail on these most interesting items. This is a little collected and studied field of arms, and it is great to have this kind of information available. All best regards, Jim

7th June 2008, 05:54 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,029	I don't mean to argue, but according to what i have read the inuit language does exist in Russia, though it is presently endangered. Wikipedia certainly isn't the end-all in research, but here is a good article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_language I think that certain Russian tribes can safely be counted amongst the Inuit people. Also, as i mentioned before, Canada is quite a big place, so i ask again, do you know what part of Canada these knives come from? East coast, West, Central? If you don't know that's fine, just curious. Thanks for all the other great info. Here is another informative article about the Inuit: http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Inuit.html Here's an article that speaks a little about conflict and warfare between the Inuit and early Viking settlers. http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/Auth...y/excerpt.html Here is an interesting series of articles about Inuit warfare written from an Inuit perspective. I think that in general the Inuit did not engage in the type of organized, large scale warfare that took place among more southern Native American tribes, but this didn't make them pacifists. Scroll down to the bottom and read up for continuity: http://www.nunatsiaq.com/archives/nu...31/nunani.html Warfare among Inuits was very rare in the more sparsely populated regions where many of them live as on might expect. Certainly their major opponent has always been the elements and their fight to survive and find find food in a rather inhospitable environment. Jim, while i agree that this is a much less collected area of edged weapons i think that once you start looking for research material you will find that the Inuit have indeed been very well studied and information on their weapons and warfare can be found layered in the vast volumes of books and papers written about these intriguing people.

7th June 2008, 10:58 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,757	Hi David, Thank you for clarifying that. What I should have said is that the topic is seldom brought up in general arms discussions, and that it is great to see interest here on these fascinating weapons. As you note, there is indeed some very good information available in a number of earlier anthropological studies, and relatively recently published works on Native American weaponry. Ausjulius, again, outstanding and informative posts on these!!! All the best, Jim

9th June 2008, 05:39 AM	#13
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 415	bottom pair of knives are carving knives, they are for carvinf bone and wood for making kayaks.. there is a sharpener on a strong attached to the handel,, .. smart idea.. the upper fot it is some general use mens knives they are double edged. and have rougth forged blades, proably beat out with a stone hammer with a rounded head on a stone anvil.. the largest ahs a blade over a foot long.. about 33cm.. one is of copper.. the cutting edges are slightly concave..