Caravaggio - paintings of armor and edged weapons 1590s-1610

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It would seem that the white pigment was the real culprit for lead, and later zinc oxide was one of the substitutes as the white lead was of course noxious.

Other sources such as the wine circumstance, or exposure in other environmental circumstances are more likely for consideration.

Jim, you might also want to know that white lead, until the last century, was widely used in many places for architectural and maritime applications. It was considered efficacious in protecting the joints of timber framing against rot. During my college years I worked part time for a local museum restoring a 19th cent. iron-hulled four-master, which of course had wooden decks, bulkheads, rails, and other elements of the superstructure and rigging. We occasionally had to apply white lead to areas such as the mating surfaces between wood and wrought iron. And of course warned by the foreman to wear gloves and goggles, and keep fingers away from our faces! The stuff had the consistency of thick yogurt.

Another protective, red lead, was painted onto exposed iron as a primer because of its rust-proofing qualities.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Philip

... Another protective, red lead, was painted onto exposed iron as a primer because of its rust-proofing qualities.

Filipe, you must be referring to what we call it over here "zarcão" (from the Arab zarkún = fire colour). I used to sell it in retail when i worked in an ironmonger when i was a kid; heavy stuff. And i remember seen my father's workers applying it as a primer to house gates.

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by fernando

Filipe, you must be referring to what we call it over here "zarcão" (from the Arab zarkún = fire colour). I used to sell it in retail when i worked in an ironmonger when i was a kid; heavy stuff. And i remember seen my father's workers applying it as a primer to house gates.

I live near the ocean and it used to be used extensively at the dockyards to protect against the corrosive effects of salt water. I have an empty bucket somewhere that still says "Red Lead". I'll have to fish it out and post a picture here.
Also, not from personal experience, but I picked up over the years that lead has a sweet taste and this is why children eating paint chips has been a problem in homes with lead paint. Probably why it was added to cheap wine and why an artist might find themselves dipping their brush in their mouth from time to time.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by shayde78

I live near the ocean and it used to be used extensively at the dockyards to protect against the corrosive effects of salt water. I have an empty bucket somewhere that still says "Red Lead". I'll have to fish it out and post a picture here.
Also, not from personal experience, but I picked up over the years that lead has a sweet taste and this is why children eating paint chips has been a problem in homes with lead paint. Probably why it was added to cheap wine and why an artist might find themselves dipping their brush in their mouth from time to time.

OK, fish it out for a photo op but for goodness' sake don't go fishing near those dockyards! Or if you do, don't eat the fish you catch! We'd like to see you contributing great threads for discussion for many years to come.

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by Philip

OK, fish it out for a photo op but for goodness' sake don't go fishing near those dockyards! Or if you do, don't eat the fish you catch! We'd like to see you contributing great threads for discussion for many years to come.

50 miles south of the mouth of the Hudson River - there's more to be worried about in the water than some mere lead! That said, the seafood here is top notch. Anyway, I found the old empty bucket of Red Lead (official Dutch Boy product). A small 2 gallon bucket (maybe 3 gallons, but I don't think so) weighed 50lbs, so you can see how heavy this stuff was!

[gp]

although Kant tells us one can not dispute 'bout taste,
I think Caravaggio's Judith is not so strong compared to 'the female Caravaggio' ( Artemisia)

if you have a look at the first by Michelangelo Merisi AKA Caravaggio and the next 2 by Artemisia Gentileschi

[gp]

but to make it easier... a few more Judith's from around the same period.
Looks like Judy had more swords than most of you lads....☺☼☺

Paintings are by Botticeli, Jan de Bray, Valentin de Boulogne, Cornelisz Vermeyen, Guido Cagnacci, Bartelomeo Manfredi, David Teniers the Younger and a few more ...

Judy remains a very popular theme till today

[Philip]

Originally Posted by gp

but to make it easier... a few more Judith's from around the same period.
Looks like Judy had more swords than most of you lads....☺☼☺

Paintings are by Botticeli, Jan de Bray, Valentin de Boulogne, Cornelisz Vermeyen, Guido Cagnacci, Bartelomeo Manfredi, David Teniers the Younger and a few more ...

Judy remains a very popular theme till today

Of all the "action shots", the one showing Judy with sword upraised in a two handed grip seems to follow the Biblical narrative most closely, which as quoted previously mentions that she took two whacks at the guy with all her might. That painting also depicts Holofernes as one might expect him to appear, passed out after an evening of serious wining and dining.