Greek Kariophili/Rasak Musket

cyten · 8th July 2020, 06:59 AM

Wonderful acquisition, Ricky! Having never examined one in person (outside a museum) are these normally rifled?

And to the Kariophili vs Rasak debate, just what is the difference? Not having any reference material myself (waiting for a good deal on Elgood) I have always just thought the ones with a miquelet lock without a triggerguard were Rasak and the flintlock with triggerguard were Kariophili. One being "truly Hellenic" the other being Slavic/Balkan/Turkish influenced. But that was always an assumption.

rickystl · 12th July 2020, 05:08 PM

"I have always just thought the ones with a miquelet lock without a triggerguard were Rasak and the flintlock with triggerguard were Kariophili. One being "truly Hellenic" the other being Slavic/Balkan/Turkish influenced. But that was always an assumption."

Hi Cyten

That seems to be the general opinion of many. And I can't really argue with that since I am also in general agreement based on reference material and handling other original examples.
The gun styling is very similar to other Rasak guns with the more curved stock and use of a miquelet lock and no trigger guard as mentioned. Maybe influence from Southern Albania (?) where the miquelet lock shows up on 90% of Albanian guns.
What attracted me to this gun was the great condition and completeness. But what had me confused was the barrel. While I could not read the script the decoration on the barrel looked Ottoman to me. Thanks to this Forum we now know the writing is Ottoman/Turkish. What I am not sure of is whether the "built by" signature refers to the entire gun, or just the barrel. But it makes more sense that it refers to the complete gun.
We do know that Ottoman/Turkish gun barrels were held in high regard during this period. Even some higher end European sporting guns show up with Ottoman barrels.

I've never read or seen one of these guns with a rifled barrel. Apparently not a preference for the owners.

Rick

executioners · 24th August 2020, 01:14 PM

a question:

does anyone know the specific year of construction of the Rasak musket?

thank you

guests · 25th August 2020, 06:00 AM

Greetings.

The "kariofili" "καριοφίλι" is a corruption of the name of the Italian firearms maker 'Carlo e figlio' (that means 'Carlo and son'), the barrels were mostly from Brescia, in 1797 Beretta was awarded a "good service certificate" from Napoleon Bonaparte for supplying barrels for 40.000 muskets manufactured by Brescia for the French emperor's grande armee.

The Rasak was indeed a Balkanian construction as was the Dzeferdar.

Cheers.

guests · 26th August 2020, 07:13 AM

by the way to this sales collection gallery site there was a Rasak musket that is sold out and had a trigger guard

guests · 27th August 2020, 01:28 PM

The Greeks instead of the atakti army had and the ieros lohos (sacred band or holy regiment) that had regular, tactic army uniforms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klepht

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatoloi

25th August 2020, 06:00 AM	#4
guests Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 3	Greetings. The "kariofili" "καριοφίλι" is a corruption of the name of the Italian firearms maker 'Carlo e figlio' (that means 'Carlo and son'), the barrels were mostly from Brescia, in 1797 Beretta was awarded a "good service certificate" from Napoleon Bonaparte for supplying barrels for 40.000 muskets manufactured by Brescia for the French emperor's grande armee. The Rasak was indeed a Balkanian construction as was the Dzeferdar. Cheers. Last edited by Ian; 29th August 2020 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Removal of links to pictures

26th August 2020, 07:13 AM	#5
guests Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 3	by the way to this sales collection gallery site there was a Rasak musket that is sold out and had a trigger guard Last edited by Robert; 26th August 2020 at 07:47 AM. Reason: Linking to a site offering items for sale one more time will earn you a two week ban. Please read the rules..

27th August 2020, 01:28 PM	#6
guests Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 3	The Greeks instead of the atakti army had and the ieros lohos (sacred band or holy regiment) that had regular, tactic army uniforms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klepht http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatoloi Last edited by Ian; 29th August 2020 at 11:21 PM. Reason: Links to external pictures are not permitted! Repeat offense. Author's privileges suspended for two weeks.

8th July 2020, 06:59 AM	#1
cyten Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Caucasus Posts: 89	Wonderful acquisition, Ricky! Having never examined one in person (outside a museum) are these normally rifled? And to the Kariophili vs Rasak debate, just what is the difference? Not having any reference material myself (waiting for a good deal on Elgood) I have always just thought the ones with a miquelet lock without a triggerguard were Rasak and the flintlock with triggerguard were Kariophili. One being "truly Hellenic" the other being Slavic/Balkan/Turkish influenced. But that was always an assumption.

12th July 2020, 05:08 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	"I have always just thought the ones with a miquelet lock without a triggerguard were Rasak and the flintlock with triggerguard were Kariophili. One being "truly Hellenic" the other being Slavic/Balkan/Turkish influenced. But that was always an assumption." Hi Cyten That seems to be the general opinion of many. And I can't really argue with that since I am also in general agreement based on reference material and handling other original examples. The gun styling is very similar to other Rasak guns with the more curved stock and use of a miquelet lock and no trigger guard as mentioned. Maybe influence from Southern Albania (?) where the miquelet lock shows up on 90% of Albanian guns. What attracted me to this gun was the great condition and completeness. But what had me confused was the barrel. While I could not read the script the decoration on the barrel looked Ottoman to me. Thanks to this Forum we now know the writing is Ottoman/Turkish. What I am not sure of is whether the "built by" signature refers to the entire gun, or just the barrel. But it makes more sense that it refers to the complete gun. We do know that Ottoman/Turkish gun barrels were held in high regard during this period. Even some higher end European sporting guns show up with Ottoman barrels. I've never read or seen one of these guns with a rifled barrel. Apparently not a preference for the owners. Rick

24th August 2020, 01:14 PM	#3
executioners Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 1	a question: does anyone know the specific year of construction of the Rasak musket? thank you