Indonesian ? nice / raw Sword

francantolin · 9th November 2020, 08:09 PM

Hello dear Members,

I wanted to show you this sword, not small, not really long,
27,5 inches long.

I think it's an old indonesian piece but I'm really not sure !

I like the heavy blade and the engraved hilt and the chiselled ferrule ( silver ?).

it seems a high rank quality sword but it contrasts with the scabbard,
really nice and interesting carved wood but a raw ethno piece
contrasting with the sword...

Any idea about this kind of sword ? Age and exact origin ?

Kind regards

RAMBA · 9th November 2020, 08:41 PM

It is an Acehnese sikin panjang with what looks to be a triple golden crown. Such weapons were produced by the official workshops of the Sultan of Aceh and presented to people of rank or royal lineages.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=sikin+panjang

kai · 9th November 2020, 11:35 PM

Hello Franc,

This certainly is an interesting grab!

The scabbard needs some TLC. It is a really good example of the more sublime esthetics of northern Sumatra and is commonly seen with high status swords, too. (There also is a status scabbard variant with heavy ivory crosspiece which would be a pain to carry on any campaign though.)

The wood is elastic and protects blades well. However, in dry climates it tends to become brittle and to get damaged; pristine examples are few and far between!

The blade will exhibit laminations (of usually lower contrast) upon etching; usually these are very well forged and hardened.

This nicely carved hilt is of the hulu rumpung style with some old wear to the lower part of the pommel; the light streaks at the pommel are weird and probably later additions (the smaller ones at the base are genuine).

The quadruple(?) crown/calyx is really unusual: The design of the tips is rather flat while the typical gold crowns (especially of the puco type with 3 rows) are very 3-dimensional. While the material typically is gold or suasa (reddish low-carat gold alloy), this seems to be brass (or heavily patinated silver alloy?). The engraving of the 3 upper rows seems to be typical and of genuine craftsmanship. The plain row at the base bugs me a bit since it also does not perfectly connect to the steel bolster. Has the base of the horn hilt been thinned a bit to receive the calyx? If so, the calyx may be later addition (albeit most likely during the working life of this blade).

Regards,
Kai

francantolin · 10th November 2020, 06:00 PM

Hello,
Really thank's a lot Ramba and Kai for your precious comments
and quick help for nail it !!

Nice surprise about the three ( maybe 4 ? ) crowns calyx ferrule tending to a high rank model ! ( didn't know this symbolic at all, beginners luck !

)

I'll have to try to clean it a little and see
( brass ?. low grade tarnished gold, goldened silver...)
I'll post better pictures soon

Kind regards

asomotif · 10th November 2020, 07:34 PM

Good evening,

That is indeed an intersting sikin panjang.
There is not much to add to everthing that Kai has mentioned.

If possible, I would like to see pictures of the hilt in a normal upright position and not under an angle. Because as Kai mentions, the connection to the steel bolster is a bit crude. It would be interesting to have better view on that and also on the decorations incised.

These weapons are rather uniform, but still have all kinds of small differences and variations. And the freaks under us, they want to see as much variations as possible.

Best regards,
Willem

francantolin · 16th November 2020, 07:32 PM

Hello,

I finally get it !

I like the green patinated hilt,
the blade seems an old ( really old ?) one made of flexible steel,
interesting scabbard and sure the crowns,
low grade gold or brass ??
I think four crown is right ( so maybe weird if just made of brass !?! )
but maybe you'll tell me it's ''just'' a 3 plus 1 , a later addition...

What do you think ?

francantolin · 16th November 2020, 07:37 PM

It didn't cost two pence but I think it's not a bad one...
I forgot: razor blade edge,

Kind regards

kai · 16th November 2020, 09:54 PM

Hello Franc,

Thanks for the additional pics!

They confirm our earlier thoughts: Blade, horn hilt, and scabbard are genuine and also exhibit the expected wear of a 19th c. piece; I still believe the light streaks at the pommel to be much later additions. Aceh blades like this sikin panjang or peudeueng pajang are known to be usually very well forged and of high quality - an etch will tell a bit more but is not mandatory at all. The scabbard is of above-average quality and almost certain to originate from Aceh proper; try to look for inscriptions while carefully nourishing and cleaning the wood. More on the calyx later.

It isn't a bad piece - let me repeat: This certainly is an interesting grab!

Let me know if you ever get tired of it...

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 17th November 2020, 12:46 AM

It does look to me based on the patina and color hue that the triple crown at the base is brass.

francantolin · 17th November 2020, 09:48 AM

Thank you Kai for your kind message !
The infos are really helpful !

For the brass(?) 3+ crowns,
I just wonder if the all gold mounted multi crowns sikin panjangs were just ceremonials weapons ( with the ivory scabbard...)

and the brass mounted, less soft than gold , for ''real battle weapons''
as the samuraïs did when they alternate the koshirae on their swords
between battle/ceremonial

I read too about suasa gold and the islamic position about to much gold on weapons, maybe there is a clue here ?...

francantolin · 17th November 2020, 02:50 PM

Here three other pictures for share,

The whole sword, with daylight pictures, always better...

and one of the scabbard as you mentioned Kai,
with interesting inscriptions, the shape for an islamic sourate but no text/ sentences...
talismanic ?

Kind regards

kai · 17th November 2020, 05:15 PM

Hello Franc,

Thanks for the additional pics!

How thoroughly did you clean the calyx? Please check whether the dark recesses of the motifs hold remnants of enamel or plain dirt...

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

and one of the scabbard as you mentioned Kai,
with interesting inscriptions, the shape for an islamic sourate but no text/ sentences...
talismanic ?

That's the widely held default assumption.

Nothing on the backside?

Regards,
Kai

francantolin · 17th November 2020, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Franc,

Thanks for the additional pics!

How thoroughly did you clean the calyx? Please check whether the dark recesses of the motifs hold remnants of enamel or plain dirt...

That's the widely held default assumption.

Nothing on the backside?

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

No, nothing on the other side, ( except floral design ...)

For the calyx, no enamel under the dark dirt,
same structure-color than the first crown.

Kind regards

9th November 2020, 08:09 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Indonesian ? nice / raw Sword Hello dear Members, I wanted to show you this sword, not small, not really long, 27,5 inches long. I think it's an old indonesian piece but I'm really not sure ! I like the heavy blade and the engraved hilt and the chiselled ferrule ( silver ?). it seems a high rank quality sword but it contrasts with the scabbard, really nice and interesting carved wood but a raw ethno piece contrasting with the sword... Any idea about this kind of sword ? Age and exact origin ? Kind regards Attached Images

10th November 2020, 07:34 PM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Good evening, That is indeed an intersting sikin panjang. There is not much to add to everthing that Kai has mentioned. If possible, I would like to see pictures of the hilt in a normal upright position and not under an angle. Because as Kai mentions, the connection to the steel bolster is a bit crude. It would be interesting to have better view on that and also on the decorations incised. These weapons are rather uniform, but still have all kinds of small differences and variations. And the freaks under us, they want to see as much variations as possible. Best regards, Willem Attached Images

16th November 2020, 07:32 PM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Hello, I finally get it ! I like the green patinated hilt, the blade seems an old ( really old ?) one made of flexible steel, interesting scabbard and sure the crowns, low grade gold or brass ?? I think four crown is right ( so maybe weird if just made of brass !?! ) but maybe you'll tell me it's ''just'' a 3 plus 1 , a later addition... What do you think ? Attached Images

16th November 2020, 07:37 PM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	It didn't cost two pence but I think it's not a bad one... I forgot: razor blade edge, Kind regards Attached Images

17th November 2020, 02:50 PM	#11
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Here three other pictures for share, The whole sword, with daylight pictures, always better... and one of the scabbard as you mentioned Kai, with interesting inscriptions, the shape for an islamic sourate but no text/ sentences... talismanic ? Kind regards Attached Images

9th November 2020, 08:41 PM	#2
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 102	It is an Acehnese sikin panjang with what looks to be a triple golden crown. Such weapons were produced by the official workshops of the Sultan of Aceh and presented to people of rank or royal lineages. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=sikin+panjang

9th November 2020, 11:35 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Franc, This certainly is an interesting grab! The scabbard needs some TLC. It is a really good example of the more sublime esthetics of northern Sumatra and is commonly seen with high status swords, too. (There also is a status scabbard variant with heavy ivory crosspiece which would be a pain to carry on any campaign though.) The wood is elastic and protects blades well. However, in dry climates it tends to become brittle and to get damaged; pristine examples are few and far between! The blade will exhibit laminations (of usually lower contrast) upon etching; usually these are very well forged and hardened. This nicely carved hilt is of the hulu rumpung style with some old wear to the lower part of the pommel; the light streaks at the pommel are weird and probably later additions (the smaller ones at the base are genuine). The quadruple(?) crown/calyx is really unusual: The design of the tips is rather flat while the typical gold crowns (especially of the puco type with 3 rows) are very 3-dimensional. While the material typically is gold or suasa (reddish low-carat gold alloy), this seems to be brass (or heavily patinated silver alloy?). The engraving of the 3 upper rows seems to be typical and of genuine craftsmanship. The plain row at the base bugs me a bit since it also does not perfectly connect to the steel bolster. Has the base of the horn hilt been thinned a bit to receive the calyx? If so, the calyx may be later addition (albeit most likely during the working life of this blade). Regards, Kai

10th November 2020, 06:00 PM	#4
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Hello, Really thank's a lot Ramba and Kai for your precious comments and quick help for nail it !! Nice surprise about the three ( maybe 4 ? ) crowns calyx ferrule tending to a high rank model ! ( didn't know this symbolic at all, beginners luck ! ) I'll have to try to clean it a little and see ( brass ?. low grade tarnished gold, goldened silver...) I'll post better pictures soon Kind regards

16th November 2020, 09:54 PM	#8
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Franc, Thanks for the additional pics! They confirm our earlier thoughts: Blade, horn hilt, and scabbard are genuine and also exhibit the expected wear of a 19th c. piece; I still believe the light streaks at the pommel to be much later additions. Aceh blades like this sikin panjang or peudeueng pajang are known to be usually very well forged and of high quality - an etch will tell a bit more but is not mandatory at all. The scabbard is of above-average quality and almost certain to originate from Aceh proper; try to look for inscriptions while carefully nourishing and cleaning the wood. More on the calyx later. It isn't a bad piece - let me repeat: This certainly is an interesting grab! Let me know if you ever get tired of it... Regards, Kai

17th November 2020, 12:46 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,299	It does look to me based on the patina and color hue that the triple crown at the base is brass.

17th November 2020, 09:48 AM	#10
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Thank you Kai for your kind message ! The infos are really helpful ! For the brass(?) 3+ crowns, I just wonder if the all gold mounted multi crowns sikin panjangs were just ceremonials weapons ( with the ivory scabbard...) and the brass mounted, less soft than gold , for ''real battle weapons'' as the samuraïs did when they alternate the koshirae on their swords between battle/ceremonial I read too about suasa gold and the islamic position about to much gold on weapons, maybe there is a clue here ?...