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24th September 2020, 08:16 AM | #1 |
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Thank you Alan. BTW the EK describes the kocet-kocetan hilt as balinese and the kusia hilt from Lombok but it is subject to caution of course....
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24th September 2020, 08:45 AM | #2 |
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Agreed.
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25th September 2020, 05:12 AM | #3 |
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This Kocet-Kocetan example is held in the Denpasar Museum.
Gavin |
26th September 2020, 11:27 PM | #4 |
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This hilt is silver, it was acquired in Bali in 1974.
Some of us might call it a kocetkocetan, others might call it a kusia, some might say that kocetkocetan & kusia are the same , no difference, but then some people might be quite positive that there is a difference between a kocetkocetan & a kusia. So if we were to belong to this last group of people who do believe that there is a difference, what might we name this particular hilt? |
27th September 2020, 03:31 AM | #5 |
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It is a beautiful silver hilt.
Btw, is kocetan considers a form of grasshopper, locust as I have impression the head does looks like a grasshopper. And Kusia considers as a beetle with the legs form? Last edited by Anthony G.; 27th September 2020 at 03:52 AM. |
27th September 2020, 09:18 AM | #6 |
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Just adding to the confusion
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14th October 2020, 09:06 AM | #7 | |
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Quote:
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27th September 2020, 06:21 PM | #8 | |
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Hello Alan,
Quote:
Gustav has quoted an early source from the colonial period which suggests that the name kusia was utilized in Klungkung; with Klungkung earlier occupying quite a chunk of Lombok, it does't not come as a surprise that this name was also known/utilized on Lombok, too. Are there possibly other Balinese kingdoms in which another name (or names) might had been utilized? (BTW, is kepompong also a Balinese word?) I'm not really interested in any name game but would love to hear if there really are any stylistic differences that can be associated with any cultural/symbolic differences (or any related symbolism in Balinese religion or folklore) rather than reverse engineering from current collectors' POVs. Regards, Kai |
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27th September 2020, 10:12 PM | #9 |
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There are multiple variations of the kocetkocetan/kusia hilt, the symbolism is of transformation:- man > spirit > rebirth; evil > good; good > evil; child > adult.
Read different authors, speak to different people you will get different interpretations. Whether something is kocetkocetan or kusia or whether they are both the same is subject to opinion too. BBK makes the differentiation subject to the presence of tusks. The overall style is Balinese, Balinese occupation of Lombok was an extension of Balinese culture, Balinese in Lombok used the Balinese language for communication. The Sasak people did not adopt Balinese style, the Balinese people did not adopt Sasak style. How can "kusia" be associated with Sasak people? The word "kepompong" is Indonesian, it means "pupa" or "chrysalis". The pupa form of an insect symbolises the time of change. Just because some source of information is older does not make it correct. In fact, insofar as the societies of SE Asia are concerned, old information provided by anybody must be looked at very carefully, and in reality, the same applies to recent information. If you ask a question of people in many of these societies you will get anything other than an accurate response. The word used for the same object can vary constantly in Bali, just as it can in Jawa. Move from one place to another, usage & dialects can change. This is not unique to only SE Asia. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 28th September 2020 at 01:02 AM. Reason: correction of error |
28th September 2020, 12:21 AM | #10 | |
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Hello Alan,
I did not mention Sasak culture/language/whatever? If kepompong is Indonesian only as expected, it is clearly modern usage. That the word kusia was known in Klungkung for such a type of hilt in the early 20th century seems to be a rather convincing bit of trivia that would be rather hard to get wrong. This seems to suggest that it isn't limited to Lombok (as expected from the close ties for the Balinese population on [parts of] both islands). Quote:
Regards, Kai |
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