Garuda Kris

[Battara]

Originally Posted by SanibelSwassa

Again I would call attention to the representations that are both common and distinct in this form.

1. The floral pattern on the crown of the “Garuda” form are not found in the other Moro Kris hilts, yet the blades on these archaic seem to have elements that would tie them back to the Moro craftsman.

2. The wings on the side profile of many of the pieces I’ve located are typical of the more common forms. This seems to be a linkage that should not be ignored.

3. The front and back of the form have a possible reference to the gateway to “heaven” or the afterlife.

I am personally still draw to a blending of the majority Islamic faith and a mix of Chinese Buddhism or remnant Hindu faith that was still present in the area. But definitely open to thoughts from other members.

I think this is a possibility. Certainly Hindu, then Buddhist, then Islamic influences came to the Philippines long ago, and probably merged in styles without knowing their origins.

Also the "gates" may have their origins in the vegetable motifs in Islam and earlier. But I do agree that the top one looks like the gate found on some Islamic prayer mats.

As for the "wings" I still hold that they are more the stylized "eyes" found on danganan, junggayan, and 17c kris pommels.

Great carvings and good to have them with twist cores.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Battara

Also the "gates" may have their origins in the vegetable motifs in Islam and earlier. But I do agree that the top one looks like the gate found on some Islamic prayer mats.

Great analogy Battara. The Mihrab came to mind when considering the motif... there may be something in the repeated pattern on the pommel, like stepping through doors.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/449537

[Gavin Nugent]

So...whilst cleaning out my phone of photos I planned for Instagram, I came across this and it hit me... these Brunei and Sarawak hilts very much resemble the upright and floral nature of many of these Sundang hulu, including the silver collar and rings.

I see the resemblance as a direct link culturally, and with the distinct Tausug canted pommels too,(from a general shape point of view), and the long time interactions between nations, along with the settling of Northern Borneo by the Tausug.

Some of these Tausug pommels also carry rather interesting related motifs too...

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

A little further visual interpretation from my perspective...

Given the Malay/Borneo and Sulu flavour of these Sundang, a Sarawak Sadap and Latok to consider...

Again, when viewed like this, and in particular the Sadap, it is akin to the two examples initially presented, those with the carved ivory pommels.

Further to this, and by no means are silver rings new to silver sword handles, but I pay particular attention to their placement in relation to the upright ancestral Jawa Demam types Sundang hilts with the three rings and where they are positioned on the hilts.

I think it is more than a little casual coincidence and perhaps there is a whole lot more to this that first meets the eye.

Now, to add a little more spice to the discussion, although I am writing to myself too often with the fascinating post, have a look at this stunning old Kampilan and consider others in your collections with what the description within the link provides, where my idle ramblings are concerned...
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collec..._As1954-07-194

Battara touched on the alignment and crossover of faiths and worship in the regions and I had my doubts about Garuda being the correct term for these and part of me still does to some degree, perhaps it is spot on.

Correct me if I am wrong but Garuda could travel between heaven and earth, somewhat makes sense to carry this symbolism on a weapon which can take one from earth to "Heaven", but alas I don't feel that was the intent though this speculation of mine...

Interesting are the Biblical references within the script on the Kampilan and that Garuda is the enemy of all snakes... does that include Satan?
Perhaps these hilts are some very real spiritual protective motifs

What I found interesting was the last Angel mentioned. Azra’il (Azrael, angel of death). When looking at the typical Kampilan hilt, there is a coin to one side... is this the coin that covers the eye when one makes the trip to the afterworld, an eye one side, a coin or token the other, symbolising the ability of the iconography to transcend both planes perhaps?
Not a stretch given the importance of the text on Kampilan in the British Museum and just how old the coin on the eyes of the dead is and how far and wide it spread...

But alas, I ramble down this road because the Museum's Biblical translations and the notation of both garuda and Jawa Demam which is the same quandary found in this thread... several lines of faith aligning in the most unusual places...
Further to this, I present the Latoks because of the Floral eye which feels very deliberately placed, which is like the Kampilan eye position discussed/pictured, and where they are both concerned, they even have the line shapes leaving the eye...

Perhaps these hulu are Garuda... I do not know, I only wanted to share my thoughts about the plausible thoughts behind the iconography of ancestor worship in these regions that share common trade and ancestors.

Gavin

[SanibelSwassa]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

A little further visual interpretation from my perspective...

Given the Malay/Borneo and Sulu flavour of these Sundang, a Sarawak Sadap and Latok to consider...

Again, when viewed like this, and in particular the Sadap, it is akin to the two examples initially presented, those with the carved ivory pommels.

Further to this, and by no means are silver rings new to silver sword handles, but I pay particular attention to their placement in relation to the upright ancestral Jawa Demam types Sundang hilts with the three rings and where they are positioned on the hilts.

I think it is more than a little casual coincidence and perhaps there is a whole lot more to this that first meets the eye.

Now, to add a little more spice to the discussion, although I am writing to myself too often with the fascinating post, have a look at this stunning old Kampilan and consider others in your collections with what the description within the link provides, where my idle ramblings are concerned...
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collec..._As1954-07-194

Battara touched on the alignment and crossover of faiths and worship in the regions and I had my doubts about Garuda being the correct term for these and part of me still does to some degree, perhaps it is spot on.

Correct me if I am wrong but Garuda could travel between heaven and earth, somewhat makes sense to carry this symbolism on a weapon which can take one from earth to "Heaven", but alas I don't feel that was the intent though this speculation of mine...

Interesting are the Biblical references within the script on the Kampilan and that Garuda is the enemy of all snakes... does that include Satan?
Perhaps these hilts are some very real spiritual protective motifs

What I found interesting was the last Angel mentioned. Azra’il (Azrael, angel of death). When looking at the typical Kampilan hilt, there is a coin to one side... is this the coin that covers the eye when one makes the trip to the afterworld, an eye one side, a coin or token the other, symbolising the ability of the iconography to transcend both planes perhaps?
Not a stretch given the importance of the text on Kampilan in the British Museum and just how old the coin on the eyes of the dead is and how far and wise it spread...

But alas, I ramble down this road because the Museum's Biblical translations and the notation of both garuda and Jawa Demam which is the same quandary found in this thread... several lines of faith aligning in the most unusual places...
Further to this, I present the Latoks because of the Floral eye which feels very deliberately placed, which is like the Kampilan eye position discussed/pictured, and where they are both concerned, they even have the line shapes leaving the eye...

Perhaps these hulu are Garuda... I do not know, I only wanted to share my thoughts about the plausible thoughts behind the iconography of ancestor worship in these regions that share common trade and ancestors.

Gavin

Gavin,

This is a great addition to the discussion!! Again I am only making a hypothesis that the hilt form could be a representation of Garuda… but the hilts you’ve brought forward definitely add interesting possibilities. As a reminder the Garuda symbolism travels through SE Asia in different forms and the merging of imagery specifically in the Southern Philippines area is well documented. The question becomes more interesting the further we dig… and that’s what is compelling for me personally.

Please let me know when you are able to put eyes on your newest example so we can really dig into its forms and symbols!!

SS

[Gavin Nugent]

SS

It is still a few weeks away... will share more when in hand.

With regards to the Coteng "wing" reference made earlier, this is what I mean, seen in the images.

Perhaps one of our Thai readers can offer the translation?

A Tajong drawing showing the same area, which is a large carved panel on the Tajong.

The last image, similar side panels are found on this Jambi Penghulu... apologies for the orientation of the image, just how it uploaded...

Gavin