Shotley Bridge swordmakers

Triarii · 17th April 2024, 03:49 PM

Ref #310.
Can I clarify something please. Is that third from left an earlier hilt with a later SB blade? The style appears to be mid C17th so-called Hounslow hanger but the discussion indicates its an SB blade?

Thanks.

urbanspaceman · 24th April 2024, 10:39 AM

Hello. Yes, it is indeed an old hilt on a new blade, a common occurrence and very confusing at times.
This group of swords were collected by Lord Gort - younger brother of Viscount Gort of famous military history - who lived close by Shotley Bridge in Hamsterly Hall.
I'll pause here because I want to locate some images to post.

urbanspaceman · 24th April 2024, 10:50 AM

Here are additional images from the Royal Armouries in Leeds showing a Mortuary hilt on one of those first batch of Solingen made blades with a Shotley Bridge script.

urbanspaceman · 24th April 2024, 11:06 AM

Those blades (and there were not a lot of them) were brought by Harmon Mohll at the time of the arrival of the Solingen diaspora in 1687.
They were destined for Jacobite upper classes around northern England.
The 'horseman's' sword was the most common and I have seen a dozen of them (there were more with blades made 'in' SB) during my research.
What has come to light just recently is this:
a couple of years ago I bought a sword casket at auction that had originally come from Wentworth-Woodhouse (the sword - a horseman's sword - is on display in Bamborough Castle). It had a bronze plaque that states Shotley Bridge circa.1680.
The big surprise came when Paul Heatherington (one of my collaborators and a SB resident) finally persuaded a friend of his to sell him his horseman's sword and it came with an exact same casket with an exact same plaque.
This needs thinking about.
BTW
The caskets are superb mahogany and expertly crafted: see images.

Triarii · 25th April 2024, 01:54 PM

Thankyou.
Wonder if that mortuary style hilt has been re-bladed or they were still in vogue in the 1680s. I thought that in Britain they'd faded out in the 1660s, though were still in use in the area of Germany until the 1680s.

urbanspaceman · 25th April 2024, 04:12 PM

I have no idea when the Mortuary style hilt fell out of fashion.
I have been informed, and I raised this issue on the forum but no-one responded, that Mortuary hilts were made on the Hebridean island of Islay where there had been a blacksmiths armoury for generations. Many Scottish clans were armed by this blacksmiths.
Maybe someone was keen to have this style of hilt and acquired a new one but it is far more likely that it was a family heirloom needing a new blade.

Jim McDougall · 26th April 2024, 05:32 PM

Well noted Keith! and the idea of 'slippers' mounting hilts on Islay is pretty exciting! I have wondered where to discover more on this as I have a keen interest in the Isles. As we know, the 'mortuary' (a Victorian collectors 'catch' term) was actually a hilt style in use early in the 17th, before the death of Charles I, whose likeness on many of these was proposed as the source of that term.

In most cases, popular hilt styles did not suddenly 'go out of fashion' as suggested in some literature. With tradition, styles and fashion tended to predominate in 'periods' (another vague historical delineation) and often continued in favor contemporary to other forms supplanting the forms.

The case you note of old hilts being mounted with more modern blades was actually common, as well as vice versa, heirloom blades in newer hilts.
While fashion of course prevails popularly, tradition is much stronger and much part of the ethos and honor held by the arme blanche.

24th April 2024, 10:39 AM	#2
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	miss-match Hello. Yes, it is indeed an old hilt on a new blade, a common occurrence and very confusing at times. This group of swords were collected by Lord Gort - younger brother of Viscount Gort of famous military history - who lived close by Shotley Bridge in Hamsterly Hall. I'll pause here because I want to locate some images to post.

24th April 2024, 11:06 AM	#4
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	Additional data Those blades (and there were not a lot of them) were brought by Harmon Mohll at the time of the arrival of the Solingen diaspora in 1687. They were destined for Jacobite upper classes around northern England. The 'horseman's' sword was the most common and I have seen a dozen of them (there were more with blades made 'in' SB) during my research. What has come to light just recently is this: a couple of years ago I bought a sword casket at auction that had originally come from Wentworth-Woodhouse (the sword - a horseman's sword - is on display in Bamborough Castle). It had a bronze plaque that states Shotley Bridge circa.1680. The big surprise came when Paul Heatherington (one of my collaborators and a SB resident) finally persuaded a friend of his to sell him his horseman's sword and it came with an exact same casket with an exact same plaque. This needs thinking about. BTW The caskets are superb mahogany and expertly crafted: see images. Attached Images

25th April 2024, 04:12 PM	#6
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	Mortuary hilts I have no idea when the Mortuary style hilt fell out of fashion. I have been informed, and I raised this issue on the forum but no-one responded, that Mortuary hilts were made on the Hebridean island of Islay where there had been a blacksmiths armoury for generations. Many Scottish clans were armed by this blacksmiths. Maybe someone was keen to have this style of hilt and acquired a new one but it is far more likely that it was a family heirloom needing a new blade.

17th April 2024, 03:49 PM	#1
Triarii Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Bristol Posts: 99	Ref #310. Can I clarify something please. Is that third from left an earlier hilt with a later SB blade? The style appears to be mid C17th so-called Hounslow hanger but the discussion indicates its an SB blade? Thanks.

24th April 2024, 10:50 AM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 517	Images Here are additional images from the Royal Armouries in Leeds showing a Mortuary hilt on one of those first batch of Solingen made blades with a Shotley Bridge script. Attached Images

25th April 2024, 01:54 PM	#5
Triarii Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Bristol Posts: 99	Thankyou. Wonder if that mortuary style hilt has been re-bladed or they were still in vogue in the 1680s. I thought that in Britain they'd faded out in the 1660s, though were still in use in the area of Germany until the 1680s.

26th April 2024, 05:32 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Well noted Keith! and the idea of 'slippers' mounting hilts on Islay is pretty exciting! I have wondered where to discover more on this as I have a keen interest in the Isles. As we know, the 'mortuary' (a Victorian collectors 'catch' term) was actually a hilt style in use early in the 17th, before the death of Charles I, whose likeness on many of these was proposed as the source of that term. In most cases, popular hilt styles did not suddenly 'go out of fashion' as suggested in some literature. With tradition, styles and fashion tended to predominate in 'periods' (another vague historical delineation) and often continued in favor contemporary to other forms supplanting the forms. The case you note of old hilts being mounted with more modern blades was actually common, as well as vice versa, heirloom blades in newer hilts. While fashion of course prevails popularly, tradition is much stronger and much part of the ethos and honor held by the arme blanche.