Latest takouba for comment

[Marc M.]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is a VERY nice takouba! and I just wanted to add some notes 'passim' from some years back. A guy who had been working in the Sahara and had acquired some takouba's noted one he had with a lion in a 'sphinx' like pose on the blade.
He got this in Ouagadougo, but said it had come from Arlit (north af Agadez)

The 1926 book, "People of the Veil" by Francis Rennell Rodd (p.233), notes that some 'masri' blades had the mark of a small couchant lion, and these marks on the blades were of course in line with the folk religion of the regions, imbued magic into the blades.
Rodd had been in the Air regions of Niger, which corresponds to the previous note of these marks in Agadez examples.

While the lion seems to have key symbolism in West Africa, it is interesting to note that these particular examples resemble trademarks using lion by C.Lutters & Co. from c. 1840s (Bezdek, p.147).

In the Sahara, the snake it seems has certain reference to a 'holy person' , and in Sudan it is seen on motif with the 'lohr' (prayer panel) along with religious symbolism. The snake is also often seen on Persian blades and symbolism, which often was prevalent Sudan.

There is a great deal of cross pollination of influences from Sahara into Sudan and vice versa, so it is hard to pinpoint exactly how these details fit together. But these notes perhaps might offer some insight into the takouba posted here.

Hi Jim
Thanks for your comment and the notes, i shall try too look them up.
Reading some recent and older posts on takouba's, there seems to be a great interest in the markings on these blades. beside this forum its hard too find any additionel info on these markings, especially the native ones.
We know that a lot of Europian blades came into Africa marked and unmarked, numbers are unknown i believe. Europian marks are mostly registerd so more easily traceable.Native markings are somewhat more difficult to date also place of origin and meaning. There is a great variety in quality and size of these markings. So just a thought, perhaps it could be an idea to start a thread where takouba and kaskara collectors post their blades with Europian and native markings for comparisation and discussion.
Greetings
Marc

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Marc
Sorry for not responding on this. Actually while there is some degree of interest in the markings on blades, it is a topic not deeply studied nor referenced.
Mostly there is information included describing or noting markings but little iif anything on their meanings or regional applications.

With this I am referring to the native markings on North African sword blades of course. Regarding European markings, these do have a certain amount of reference in a number of compendiums of makers who have registered markings. These were somewhat controlled administratively so using those records numbers of collections of these are available in certain references.

These have been discussed here often over the past 20 years and using the search by describing the mark, i.e. running wolf; sickle marks etc. you will find threads on them.

However it is important to note that while many markings are listed for makers, there is a wide range of marks which were not specific to any particular maker, but applied generally as quality marks.

These were widely copied by native makers and importers, and these were often perceived in the sense of what the native folk religion or tradition perceived. For example, the cross and orb used in Germany and placed on blades in the manner noted re: quality, etc. was viewed by some tribes in Sudan as 'drum and sticks', an important symbol relegated to chiefs or important tribal figures.
The cross was seen not religiously, but as an indicator of the four cardinal directions and used symbolically in various reference to universality or encompassing power.

While many European blades did enter North Africa which were either surplus or trade intended, and were marked...there were indeed numbers of 'blanks' which did come in later in 19th c. whose numbers and disposition are unclear. After the Franco-Prussian war ended suddenly, Solingen was a bit overextended and produced numbers of these blades for export.

It is a very broad topic of course, and pretty much requires examples being examined on individual merits as organized or categorized classifications in these cases are not exactly feasible ordinarily. Still it is a good idea to try to assemble groupings as much as possible. I know, Ive been trying for well over 25 years now

Best
Jim

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Marc

While many European blades did enter North Africa which were either surplus or trade intended, and were marked...there were indeed numbers of 'blanks' which did come in later in 19th c. whose numbers and disposition are unclear. After the Franco-Prussian war ended suddenly, Solingen was a bit overextended and produced numbers of these blades for export.

Jim

Hi, Jim
Yes indeed, during the 19th cent. Solingen makers were quite active in the export trade, not only selling complete swords of military pattern to countries in Latin America, Asia, and even to the US, but also sold bare blades to parts of the world which had prior exposure to European swords in centuries past. In many cases, the style and markings were very close to the originals, certainly not current at the time.

Years ago, I had a Chinese sword, late Qing, with a blade that looked for all the world like it belonged on a 17th cent. European horseman's broadsword -- lenticular cross-section with three narrow fullers down the center. And with addorsed crescent moons, and "P D Lüneschloss Solingen" on each side, etched in somewhat rough letters imitating the hand-chiseled blade inscriptions of the 1600s. Only thing, Paul D Lüneschloss did not begin operations until 1810 (they were primarily a military weapons producer until the first half of the 20th cent.). Also, the fullers on this blade were obviously machine-cut, without the slight irregularities of pre-industrial work.

I tried to find images of the sword (taken in pre-digital age) but they are long gone. But I do recall seeing an identical blade mounted in a talwar hilt, in one of the catalogs of that longtime antique arms dealer in Miami Beach, Marv Hoffman, I'm sure you remember him.

Philip

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Philip

Hi, Jim
Yes indeed, during the 19th cent. Solingen makers were quite active in the export trade, not only selling complete swords of military pattern to countries in Latin America, Asia, and even to the US, but also sold bare blades to parts of the world which had prior exposure to European swords in centuries past. In many cases, the style and markings were very close to the originals, certainly not current at the time.

Years ago, I had a Chinese sword, late Qing, with a blade that looked for all the world like it belonged on a 17th cent. European horseman's broadsword -- lenticular cross-section with three narrow fullers down the center. And with addorsed crescent moons, and "P D Lüneschloss Solingen" on each side, etched in somewhat rough letters imitating the hand-chiseled blade inscriptions of the 1600s. Only thing, Paul D Lüneschloss did not begin operations until 1810 (they were primarily a military weapons producer until the first half of the 20th cent.). Also, the fullers on this blade were obviously machine-cut, without the slight irregularities of pre-industrial work.

I tried to find images of the sword (taken in pre-digital age) but they are long gone. But I do recall seeing an identical blade mounted in a talwar hilt, in one of the catalogs of that longtime antique arms dealer in Miami Beach, Marv Hoffman, I'm sure you remember him.

Philip

Thank you Philip!!! Always outstanding information and insights, and I also recall numbers of instances of PD Luneschloss. Mostly recall Victorian blades with the PDL in an oval on the blade. Its good to hear the note on the addorsed crescent moons, which of course became regarded as the near trademark on Hausa and Tuareg blades. Briggs seemed to consider that these were never in this paired configuration on European blades.

I do very much recall the Hoffman brothers!!! and those "Museum of Historical Arms" catalogs, which have become treasured little books for reference (usually). These used to turn up in old used book stores, and I would grab them, just for the memories (mostly 70s).

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I do very much recall the Hoffman brothers!!! and those "Museum of Historical Arms" catalogs, which have become treasured little books for reference (usually). These used to turn up in old used book stores, and I would grab them, just for the memories (mostly 70s).

Hey Jim, did you ever add to your collection from their stock? Their catalogs were pretty rudimentary by today's marketing standards (like the glossy auction catalogs put out by RIA, Hermann, and Czerny, not to forget Peter Finer's hoity-toity productions where every item is "POR"). But back in the day, the Hoffmanns were among the few dealers who cranked out a wish book on glossy paper with every item photographed (haha, if only in small format against pegboard, it was better than the hand-drawn entries that Robert Abels of NY got away with for years). My eyes grow moist when I leaf through one of those old catalogs and look at the prices!