Hilt Identification

[kino]

Here’s a dagger hilt from Mindanao. I’m guessing Lanao area and last quarter of 20th century manufacture.
It has some resemblance in a way.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Athanase & Kino.

We now have a pretty good collection of opinions here, & combined with the ones that I already had prior to beginning this thread we have certainly covered a wide area.

Perhaps it is time for me to tell what I do know for certain.

I have had the dagger that this hilt forms a part of since 1953. In 1953 I was 12 years old, and my grandfather gave me his edged weapon collection, most of which had been collected during his journey back to Australia from England, after the cessation of WWI.

He had purchased this dagger in Medan, Sumatera, in 1920.

Between about 1980 & 2000 a number of Indonesian friends & associates have seen photos of this dagger, & none have identified it as Javanese, but several have commented that it was very probably made for somebody who had a strong connection with the Colonial Government or who had a Dutch or other European employer, or who was a member of a kraton sub-society.

They had formed this opinion because the belt hook is in the form of an acorn. Indigenous people who were in the employ of Europeans, during the Colonial era, often included motifs with a European reference into their dress. Think of the Madura keris dress from this era, and the royal alterations to formal clothing.

None of the Indonesian people who have seen the photo of this dagger were able to name with any degree of certainty its point of origin. None of these people were involved with the overall art of Indonesia, but all were very knowledgeable in matters to do with Javanese weaponry.

I have a fairly comprehensive library of books that deal with Indonesian art, craft & sculpture. I cannot find any pictures of any objects that are precisely the same as the design motif of this hilt.

However, I can find elements of this design motif in objects that originate from Sumatera, Nias(Nias is actually a part of North Sumatera), North Jawa, Madura, & Kalimantan. Kalimantan gets the most hits.

The opinions expressed in response to my question name a number of places as possible points of origin, but nobody has expressed a firm opinion. Currently we have:-
Nias, Mindanao, Sunda, Sumatera, Lombok, Philippines, Timor.

I apologise for being unable to show the complete dagger, but this would infringe Forum rules, apart from which it would also be something that I would consider to be unethical behaviour.

I thank you all for your opinions, but I guess that for the moment point of origin of this design motif will have to remain unknown.

[Ian]

Alan,

The collective experience expressed here is drawing a blank to your very precise question. I assume there is no blade to go with this hilt. Has the hilt ever been used? If not, then perhaps it is not completely finished and the end that we can see was intended to be worked on further into a more recognisable form. Mention has been made that the "stem" appears well finished and precisely carved, while the end seems rougher in appearance.

EDIT: Sorry, I posted before reading your most recent post. So there is a blade to go with this hilt. This forum does ask that a picture of the entire item be provided in order to facilitate answers to identification questions and for reference in the archives. It is interesting to note the possible multicultural context of the knife and its history. As noted above, "... It seems to be unique. For me, that always raises the possibility of a multicultural item that has been influenced by an element foreign to the local one."

A picture of the scabbard may yield more information that the hilt, particularly if it has features consistent with Spanish influences.

[A. G. Maisey]

Ian, I do acknowledge that it would be desirable for the entire dagger to be presented, but this would be both unethical & in contravention of Forum rules. Additionally, it would not assist in the slightest degree in providing a response to my question.

I did not request an opinion on the entire object, only on the hilt, & and as you note, my question was precise. I apologise for the nature of my question, but in this case that is what I need, I already know where & when it was acquired and where it has been for the last 100 years or so.

The blade is ancient, & very probably would have been pusaka, the blade has nothing at all to do with the hilt, nor does the scabbard, except that it was used in assembling the dagger. I am already quite confident that the entire piece is associated with the dominant forces in the East Indies during the time it was created.

The only thing that puzzles me is the place of origin of the hilt.

The quality of carving in the hilt is high & it is typical of elements common in a number of places in today's Indonesia.

The entire dagger is late colonial period & probably after +/- 1880.

Yes, I agree with your comment on inter cultural influence, & in respect of the old East Indies, this is a very common element that stretches over a few hundred years.

[GIO]

I am convinced thay such hilt would not cut a bad figure on a talibong, but I m open to any opinionby from more evperts on the Forum, who are better informed and experienced.
Best regards Gio

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you for your contribution GIO, but this dagger is quite small, not really talibong size.

[Interested Party]

I noticed the planar form right off the bat. My question is have you identified the wood and used that to narrow the search? Not that nice wood isn't a trade good, but it would be a place to start.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you for your thoughts IP, but for the style and period that would be irrelevant.

For items of rural style & lower quality it might be relevant, but not for something like this little dagger.

I've already got a pretty good start, what I need is that very rare thing:- some specific knowledge of the design motif used in the hilt pommel.

Only that.