Very large (East?) Javanese Keris for Comments

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Athanase.

So the faces of the blade are smooth curves?

[Athanase]

Yes it's smooth curves.

[kai]

Hello Alan,

Do you know why the gonjo has these triangular notches?

Don't you think the gonjo might have been replaced? The not well-defined sirah cecak does not seeem to fit well with the neatly sculpted gandik, does it?

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Alan,

Do you know why the gonjo has these triangular notches?

Don't you think the gonjo might have been replaced? The not well-defined sirah cecak does not seeem to fit well with the neatly sculpted gandik, does it?

Regards,
Kai

Glad you asked about these notches. I was going to enquire and then forgot to mention it. I am curious as well.

[Athanase]

For me the notch on the internal face of the Ganja was made during forging to give its domed profile on each side, while starting from a thin piece of metal, in the but to save material.
After that do not say if it is the original Ganja or a replacement.
Originally it was rust welded to the blade, but after a vinegar bath to remove the rust it became free again.

[A. G. Maisey]

Kai, the removal of material from the underside of the gonjo is done to facilitate fitting.

The gonjo might have been replaced, it is not fitted at the moment and I'd need it in my hand before I could give a supportable opinion, but whether it was or was not replaced , it is a west Jawa gonjo, and in my opinion this is a west Jawa wilahan.

Just read Athanase's post.Sounds like an original gonjo.

But Athanase, this removal of material from the bottom of a gonjo is not the result of forging, it is stock removal for the reason I've given, and it is common. We cannot, in any case, forge minor details like this.

[Jean]

What is the reason for the sloppy & blurred patras, religious reason or just poor craftsmanship?
Regards

[kai]

Hello Jean,

What is the reason for the sloppy & blurred patras, religious reason or just poor craftsmanship

Missing, highly stylized or "empty" patra seem to be an early development and examples are seen in a few of the extant early keris hilts.

In this case, I believe the hilt was not done by a specialized carver (maybe rather done by one of the former owners). The base of the hilt appears to have seen some wear or intentional thinning out (already a good while ago) - this may have contributed to the uneven lines teathering out towards the base.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Gio,

I did have the same feeling in my earlier posting #8...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Alan,

I hope your travel hasn't been too tedious?

Kai, the removal of material from the underside of the gonjo is done to facilitate fitting.

I have to admit that I'm at a loss how this helps fitting the gonjo - could you please explain? (If anything, this might weaken the fit between gonjo and pesi, doesn't it?)

The gonjo might have been replaced, it is not fitted at the moment and I'd need it in my hand before I could give a supportable opinion, but whether it was or was not replaced , it is a west Jawa gonjo, and in my opinion this is a west Jawa wilahan.

Just read Athanase's post.Sounds like an original gonjo.

Well, I have no qualms with it being old and possibly having been replaced in the originating culture.

However, the quality of craftsmanship does seem to be vastly different.

Regards,
Kai

[GIO]

Originally Posted by Athanase

For me the notch on the internal face of the Ganja was made during forging to give its domed profile on each side, while starting from a thin piece of metal, in the but to save material.
After that do not say if it is the original Ganja or a replacement.
Originally it was rust welded to the blade, but after a vinegar bath to remove the rust it became free again.

I have some doubts about the originality of the ganja: the colour is different than that of the blade and the sirah cecak is not aligned with the blade.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by GIO

I have some doubts about the originality of the ganja: the colour is different than that of the blade and the sirah cecak is not aligned with the blade.

I also noticed that the gulu meled of the ganja (the part behind the sirak cecak) looks to be wider than the pejetan.
Regards