Slim Kojuk Mrenges Keris Hilt from Madura

COYOTE · 30th January 2016, 05:41 PM

I recently bought a Kojuk Mrenges keris hilt, made in Madura Island and believed to be very old elephant ivory. I am very curious about his size. As far as I understand, there are basically 2 types of these Kojuk Mrenges keris hilts : one being much slimmer than the other. But the present one is even slimmer than the slim model.
Please have a look on the pictures figuring a "normal slim" model of Kojuk Mrenges and an other "much slimmer".
The measures of the 2 pieces are :
The "normal slim" one :
length 9.5 cm,
thickness of the piece without considering the base : 2.1 cm
measures of the base : 2.4x2.4 cm
The "much slimmer" one :
length 8.9 cm,
thickness of the piece without considering the base : 1.4 cm
measures of the base : 2.0x1.7 cm
So, as can be seen, there is a quite important difference on the thickness of the 2 pieces, 2.1 cm against 1.4 cm.
Would it be possible that this keris hilt was made for a woman or for a child ?
Otherwise, would it have an other explanation ?
Thanks in advance in helping me to learn from the experts ...
Best Wishes from Rio

David · 30th January 2016, 08:02 PM

My immediate thought was that the carver was working with the amount of material that was available to them at the time. I am not sure that a hilt would necessarily need to be even slimmer than the already slim version you show to accommodate a small hand.
Here is my own "slim" version of this style of hilt.

Sajen · 31st January 2016, 09:30 PM

Hello Patrick,

I have handled a lot of this slim Kojuk Mrenges hilts over the years but can't tell you the exact purpose of this slim hilts and I never have handled a keris with such a hilt where I have been sure that the ensemble is original and already long together. Will post my example when the light it allows to take pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 31st January 2016, 10:39 PM

I'm not sure if it means anything, but my example is indeed on a patrem blade.

COYOTE · 1st February 2016, 05:25 AM

Thank you David and Detlef for your precious information.
As it seems, and I think it is absolutely correct, that the usual slim Kojuk Mrenges hilt will fit perfectly for small hands.
So, could this smaller model have been made for a very young child, not old enough to use it but as part of a ceremonial or festivities dress ?

David · 1st February 2016, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COYOTE

Thank you David and Detlef for your precious information.
As it seems, and I think it is absolutely correct, that the usual slim Kojuk Mrenges hilt will fit perfectly for small hands.
So, could this smaller model have been made for a very young child, not old enough to use it but as part of a ceremonial or festivities dress ?

I don't think very many very young children would have keris for ceremonial purposes. A hilt for a patrem seems more reasonable.

Sajen · 6th February 2016, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Will post my example when the light it allows to take pictures.

Hello Patrick,

like promised, here my slim example side by side with a "normal" sized example.

Regards,
Detlef

COYOTE · 9th February 2016, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Patrick,

like promised, here my slim example side by side with a "normal" sized example.

Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef,
Nice pieces indeed.
Thanks again for your help.
Best from Rio,
Patrick

Sajen · 9th February 2016, 06:07 PM

You're welcome!

30th January 2016, 05:41 PM	#1
COYOTE Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil Posts: 27	Slim Kojuk Mrenges Keris Hilt from Madura I recently bought a Kojuk Mrenges keris hilt, made in Madura Island and believed to be very old elephant ivory. I am very curious about his size. As far as I understand, there are basically 2 types of these Kojuk Mrenges keris hilts : one being much slimmer than the other. But the present one is even slimmer than the slim model. Please have a look on the pictures figuring a "normal slim" model of Kojuk Mrenges and an other "much slimmer". The measures of the 2 pieces are : The "normal slim" one : length 9.5 cm, thickness of the piece without considering the base : 2.1 cm measures of the base : 2.4x2.4 cm The "much slimmer" one : length 8.9 cm, thickness of the piece without considering the base : 1.4 cm measures of the base : 2.0x1.7 cm So, as can be seen, there is a quite important difference on the thickness of the 2 pieces, 2.1 cm against 1.4 cm. Would it be possible that this keris hilt was made for a woman or for a child ? Otherwise, would it have an other explanation ? Thanks in advance in helping me to learn from the experts ... Best Wishes from Rio Attached Images

30th January 2016, 08:02 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,034	My immediate thought was that the carver was working with the amount of material that was available to them at the time. I am not sure that a hilt would necessarily need to be even slimmer than the already slim version you show to accommodate a small hand. Here is my own "slim" version of this style of hilt. Attached Images

1st February 2016, 05:25 AM	#5
COYOTE Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil Posts: 27	Thank you !! Thank you David and Detlef for your precious information. As it seems, and I think it is absolutely correct, that the usual slim Kojuk Mrenges hilt will fit perfectly for small hands. So, could this smaller model have been made for a very young child, not old enough to use it but as part of a ceremonial or festivities dress ?

31st January 2016, 09:30 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,516	Hello Patrick, I have handled a lot of this slim Kojuk Mrenges hilts over the years but can't tell you the exact purpose of this slim hilts and I never have handled a keris with such a hilt where I have been sure that the ensemble is original and already long together. Will post my example when the light it allows to take pictures. Regards, Detlef

31st January 2016, 10:39 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,034	I'm not sure if it means anything, but my example is indeed on a patrem blade.

9th February 2016, 06:07 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,516	You're welcome!