Cut steel decorations on Indian arms

ariel · 17th November 2019, 06:14 PM

That was Tirri’s idea.
Yes, from time to time we do see Tulwars with no pommel disk. But we see many, many more with semi-attached wobbly disks, some even with signs of attempted brazing. There is no way to exclude deliberate removal of disks from time to time, but IMHO in the majority of cases it was an unintended loss due to forging defect/poor craftsmanship.

Kubur · 17th November 2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

IMHO in the majority of cases it was an unintended loss due to forging defect/poor craftsmanship.

Yes I agree... they were badly smelted.
Disks are important to keep the sword well in hand.
or disks were removed as demilitarized equipment - in short to not beeing used...against British or others...

"A grip of the size of 7 cm does not surprise m"

As Jens wrote it's common and it's very handy as your hand is really stuck between the guard and the disk...might have been useful in a battle...

Jens Nordlunde · 17th November 2019, 09:14 PM

Yes Ariel is right, that was Tirri's theory - and so far we dont know if it is correct.

Kubur, the thing about the handle was not from me, but from Krochew #52.

Anyway, missing disc or not, lets have a look at the tulwar.
The hilt is very vorn, and the blade seems to be quite old as well - so how old would you think it is?
To be save, I would say early 18th century, but it could be older. Bids are open :-).

ariel · 18th November 2019, 12:25 AM

Paul writes in his book that the pommel disk was there for a purpose: it created a very tight grip, and this tightness resulted in the emotion of “josh”, something that can be loosely explained as aggressiveness, daring, absence of fear. Perhaps, a better translation would be “amok” or “berserk”.
Perhaps.
Realistically, tight grip and the disk immobilized wrist movements, forcing the fighter to slash from the elbow or the shoulder. As a result, in conjunction with curved Tulwar profile, it essentially eliminated the possibility of stabbing movements. This was repeatedly stressed by European travelers.

In part, this limitation could be more or less overcome by curving the index finger over the quillon or by the European “ thumb ring” . But then, which finger are you more willing to sacrifice?

17th November 2019, 06:14 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	That was Tirri’s idea. Yes, from time to time we do see Tulwars with no pommel disk. But we see many, many more with semi-attached wobbly disks, some even with signs of attempted brazing. There is no way to exclude deliberate removal of disks from time to time, but IMHO in the majority of cases it was an unintended loss due to forging defect/poor craftsmanship. Last edited by ariel; 17th November 2019 at 06:26 PM.

17th November 2019, 09:14 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Yes Ariel is right, that was Tirri's theory - and so far we dont know if it is correct. Kubur, the thing about the handle was not from me, but from Krochew #52. Anyway, missing disc or not, lets have a look at the tulwar. The hilt is very vorn, and the blade seems to be quite old as well - so how old would you think it is? To be save, I would say early 18th century, but it could be older. Bids are open :-).

18th November 2019, 12:25 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Paul writes in his book that the pommel disk was there for a purpose: it created a very tight grip, and this tightness resulted in the emotion of “josh”, something that can be loosely explained as aggressiveness, daring, absence of fear. Perhaps, a better translation would be “amok” or “berserk”. Perhaps. Realistically, tight grip and the disk immobilized wrist movements, forcing the fighter to slash from the elbow or the shoulder. As a result, in conjunction with curved Tulwar profile, it essentially eliminated the possibility of stabbing movements. This was repeatedly stressed by European travelers. In part, this limitation could be more or less overcome by curving the index finger over the quillon or by the European “ thumb ring” . But then, which finger are you more willing to sacrifice?