British or Indo Persian Blade?

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Bryce

How can I test if it is wootz, without ruining the patina of the blade?

Hello Bryce,

first you should check every inch of the untouched blade with a magnifying glass and a small LED-flashlight for laminations or traces of wootz.

If you find nothing I would suggest to use a mild etchant like 4% Nital or 5% Seno 3207 without previous polishing. You can remove this staining without destroying the Patina (which is in my opinion just corrosion).

Another simple way is to hold the blade under running hot water (>50°C) and wait for a while. This would normally bring out laminations, if there are some, without touching the patina.

I think like the others, this is a high quality European copy of a Persian Shamshir or Kilij with a European hilt. These blades were extremely popular among cavalry officers during the Napoleonic campaigns.


Roland

[Hotspur]

All that is cast/crucible, is not necessarily classified as wootz. I wouldn't bother with etching it. It does look like crucible steel, as you can see the dentritic structure if enlarging the images.

There is a polished look of cast/crucible 18th and 19th century British blades that has kind of a fine sparkly look. My Wooley Deakin&Co blade has such a look and likewise a less polished yataghan I own. The yataghan blade regarded by some as "low resolution wootz" is simply a less figured and homogeneous crucible steel. The dentritic structure evident without the whoorls and patterning of fine wootz. A lot of fine wootz work a matter of how the cakes are processed/smithed.

Anyway, here is a segment of imaging from my yataghan blade, the Woolley blade hard to capture but sparkles in refracted light.

Cheers
GC

[Hotspur]

A simplified article on British cast steel re Huntsman et al
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...abbard-is-This

[Madnumforce]

I don't have any expertise, but I'm curious.
Having a plain, unfullered blade strikes me as a rather unusual feature on a light cavalry saber. Was it more common than I thought?
Also, the hilt has many French-like features: the narrow "ears", the "rolled" backstrap with brazed pommel plate, the three nails, etc...

[Bryce]

Thanks for your input on crucible steel GC. Are you sure that is the right link? It takes me to a link on scabbards?

G'day Madnumforce, plain unfullered blades were a lot less common than fullered blades, but not unusual. They seem much more common after the Egyptian campaign of 1801 than the period 1788 - 1796 when this sword was likely made. Below is an example of a British sword with a similar unfullered blade made circa 1810-20. What is unusual about this blade is that it has the long ricasso found on Indian blades, slightly rounded back edge compared to typically flat for British swords, and much less distal taper than usual. This results in a very blade heavy sword with the point of balance far from the hilt. This is not typical for a British sword of this period.

John St Leger was a very "flashy" officer and I would have thought that if he wanted an Eastern style blade, he would have procured an authentic wootz example rather than had Thomas Gill make him a copy. However, it is unlikely that Thomas Gill would have put his name on the blade if he was simply rehilting an older blade. Usually he would have put his name on the scabbard mounts instead.

Below is a portrait of St Leger, commissioned by the Prince of Wales, before this sword would have been made.

Cheers,
Bryce

[Hotspur]

https://www.westyorkssteel.com/blog/...amin-huntsman/

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I test etched a small window on this blade and there is no sign of a pattern, so it is a british copy of an Indian blade made by Thomas Gill.


Cheers,

Bryce