Thai Kings and thier swords

RhysMichael · 17th October 2006, 03:12 AM

A thread on another forum showing King Thibaw of Burma with a tulwar got me looking at pictures and paintings of Thai and Burmese royalty. I ended up finding these pictures of King Buddhayodfa the Great (Rama I) and King Buddhaloetla (Rama II). I don't want to read too much into a painting that I have no idea of the provenance of. It does not show them with traditional Darb or with what would be european blades. To me the hilts, which is all that is shown looks like some of the vietnamese sabers we see. It could be seeing what you want to see though so I am posting them here for your thoughts. I do wish it showed the entire sword. And one of the swords I think these hilts resemble can be found here on Artzi's site
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2173

Andrew · 17th October 2006, 04:18 AM

Hi JT. I think what those Kings are pictured with are military krabi.

Great pictures, by the way. I absolutely see the resemblance to the hilts of those Vietnamese sabers.

Ian · 17th October 2006, 01:14 PM

Hi John:

Yes, I agree that the hilts resemble the Vietnamese parade sabers like the one on Artzi's site.

There was a progressive trend to European style swords among the Thai military and nobility towards the end of the 19th C. I'm not sure when it started, but it was certainly present by 1900.

What period did these guys reign. I'm assuming they are all rulers of the Rattanokosin period.

Ian.

RhysMichael · 17th October 2006, 03:01 PM

Ian and Andrew thanks for the comments. Rama I was king from 1782-1809 and Rama II from 1809-1824. Just from a casual observation King Chulalongkorn the Great - Rama V (1868-1910) seems to have been photographed in Thai clothing with Thai swords when he was younger but more commonly with European style clothing and swords as he matured.

Andrew do you know where I might see some pictures of military krabi with this type of hilt ?

From the same series here is King Nangklao - Rama III 1824-1851 With a dha with a tsuba ( for lack of a better term ) similar to those posted by Dan before

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...amuraithai.jpg

I just realized the text about these swords in the picture references Rama III

RhysMichael · 17th October 2006, 03:47 PM

In the above I said from a casual observation King Chulalongkorn the Great - Rama V (1868-1910) seems to have been photographed in Thai clothing with Thai swords when he was younger but more often with European style clothing and swords later. Here are some of the pictures to support that. I feel it was deliberately done to project and image to the British and French. He seems to have been very politically astute

Andrew · 17th October 2006, 03:51 PM

I'm on the road today, but will look around when I get home tonight.

I guess I should qualify my comment by admitting to making a quick guess. I've seen military krabi, but can't recall exactly the context. Also, I'm far from certain if the outfits they're wearing are military, which would make a pose with military swords more likely.

I'll amend my comment to say the swords look like krabi (sabers) to me, and look for some supporting evidence later.

In the meantime, maybe one of our Thai members will bail me out...

Mark · 17th October 2006, 10:20 PM

Those two could almost be the same sword, entirely possible since various swords are part of the Thai Royal Regalia. I have a picture of some of them. I'll see if I can find the book, and if there is a krabi among them.

You also get very similar krabi from Laos, but the one I've seen had an elephant head pommel instead of a naga.

RhysMichael · 17th October 2006, 11:38 PM

Mark and Andrew I hope you both have better luck finding a picture of a military krabi than I have. I have found a seal and a flag with siloettes of them though, Would krabis have been used in 1800

17th October 2006, 03:12 AM	#1
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Thai Kings and thier swords A thread on another forum showing King Thibaw of Burma with a tulwar got me looking at pictures and paintings of Thai and Burmese royalty. I ended up finding these pictures of King Buddhayodfa the Great (Rama I) and King Buddhaloetla (Rama II). I don't want to read too much into a painting that I have no idea of the provenance of. It does not show them with traditional Darb or with what would be european blades. To me the hilts, which is all that is shown looks like some of the vietnamese sabers we see. It could be seeing what you want to see though so I am posting them here for your thoughts. I do wish it showed the entire sword. And one of the swords I think these hilts resemble can be found here on Artzi's site http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2173 Attached Images Last edited by RhysMichael; 17th October 2006 at 03:52 AM.

17th October 2006, 03:01 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Ian and Andrew thanks for the comments. Rama I was king from 1782-1809 and Rama II from 1809-1824. Just from a casual observation King Chulalongkorn the Great - Rama V (1868-1910) seems to have been photographed in Thai clothing with Thai swords when he was younger but more commonly with European style clothing and swords as he matured. Andrew do you know where I might see some pictures of military krabi with this type of hilt ? From the same series here is King Nangklao - Rama III 1824-1851 With a dha with a tsuba ( for lack of a better term ) similar to those posted by Dan before http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...amuraithai.jpg I just realized the text about these swords in the picture references Rama III Attached Images Last edited by RhysMichael; 17th October 2006 at 03:32 PM.

17th October 2006, 03:47 PM	#5
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	In the above I said from a casual observation King Chulalongkorn the Great - Rama V (1868-1910) seems to have been photographed in Thai clothing with Thai swords when he was younger but more often with European style clothing and swords later. Here are some of the pictures to support that. I feel it was deliberately done to project and image to the British and French. He seems to have been very politically astute Attached Images

17th October 2006, 11:38 PM	#8
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Mark and Andrew I hope you both have better luck finding a picture of a military krabi than I have. I have found a seal and a flag with siloettes of them though, Would krabis have been used in 1800 Attached Images

17th October 2006, 04:18 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hi JT. I think what those Kings are pictured with are military krabi. Great pictures, by the way. I absolutely see the resemblance to the hilts of those Vietnamese sabers.

17th October 2006, 01:14 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,034	Hi John: Yes, I agree that the hilts resemble the Vietnamese parade sabers like the one on Artzi's site. There was a progressive trend to European style swords among the Thai military and nobility towards the end of the 19th C. I'm not sure when it started, but it was certainly present by 1900. What period did these guys reign. I'm assuming they are all rulers of the Rattanokosin period. Ian.

17th October 2006, 03:51 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I'm on the road today, but will look around when I get home tonight. I guess I should qualify my comment by admitting to making a quick guess. I've seen military krabi, but can't recall exactly the context. Also, I'm far from certain if the outfits they're wearing are military, which would make a pose with military swords more likely. I'll amend my comment to say the swords look like krabi (sabers) to me, and look for some supporting evidence later. In the meantime, maybe one of our Thai members will bail me out...

17th October 2006, 10:20 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Those two could almost be the same sword, entirely possible since various swords are part of the Thai Royal Regalia. I have a picture of some of them. I'll see if I can find the book, and if there is a krabi among them. You also get very similar krabi from Laos, but the one I've seen had an elephant head pommel instead of a naga.