Kaskara thoughts, please.

mross · 19th September 2019, 03:31 PM

I won this kaskara off of eprey. It had enough red flags that I did not use the buy it now option but put in a low bid with a lot of hope. I won it as the only bidder which made me even more concerned that the red flags where seen by others who decided not to bite. This is a completely new area for me so my experience is limited. This was the eprey banner, "Superb European bladed Kaskara Solingen likely 18th century North African sword" The orb and cross and standing cat had copper inlays. This worried me that they may not be inlays at but just drawn. The markings seemed to be in a differnt place then my referenece(All my reference is Ed Hunly's articles. THANKS Ed). It also had the fly markings. The crossguard seemed to be of the type; Sammaniya, small flare forged iron. WHich matched the sellers age guess. THe markings are; Fly, orb and cross, and standing cat. THe fullers really bothered me as they looked very crude. But the fullers and blade shape matched the type; Dukkeri abu Dubban.
I have this blade in hand and am still stumped. The fullers are not well done but do not seem to far off from the reference. The fly is there, twice. one is hiding under the cross piece. THe orb and cat are indeed inlaid and not painted or drawn as I feared. I cannot say what the metal is could be copper but it has a odd patina. The blade is unsharpened in the ricasso area. The sharpest area is near the tip which is still quite sharp the rest was sharpened but is not as sharp as the tip area. There seems to be some file marks on the edges, which could point to repro but... Oh, he!! I just can't tell so what are your thoughts. If it's a repro that explains me as the only bidder and it's a lesson, if it's the real deal then it was the deal of the century. Don't be afraid to be brutal or blunt. I've been collecting for years and do not offend easily.

mross · 19th September 2019, 03:33 PM

I do have a pic of the sword in total but am having problems getting it uploaded. I may have to retake it tonight.

Iain · 19th September 2019, 03:35 PM

Far as I can see it is exactly what it appears to be. Good quality guard and Solingen export blade. Other buyers may have been put off by the hilt condition and lack of scabbard?

Congrats on a good deal. A solid piece in terms of the surviving components.

Jim McDougall · 19th September 2019, 05:06 PM

Well done MRoss!!!! This is a great example with outstanding blade and the guard! These are of course the key components and regardless of the grip condition, this acquisition is important and especially for those of us who are focused on the history of these weapons.
The poor condition of the hilt suggests that this sword has probably been static for some time, thus has avoided the clutches of crafty dealers and innovative sellers.

Iain, it has been a while since we have looked at these 'latten' (inlaid brass) markings in the Sudanese context. We had discussed the possibility that these schiavona type blades may have been produced in Solingen specifically for this North African market. Is this still a viable theory?

Sajen · 19th September 2019, 05:30 PM

Not my area of collecting but I think that you have well done!

Have attached some seller pictures, they are not bad so they show it well.

Regards,
Detlef

Edster · 19th September 2019, 05:44 PM

Mross,

I'm glad the kaskara essays were useful. I agree with both Iain and Jim. Well done. I would differ with the seller as to age. R. Cronau's book attributes all three marks to Peter Kull in 1847. Bezdek gives the cat and cross & orb to Peter Kull (1830-1870) and the fly to Samuel Kull (1847-1860).

Back in July we had a good discussion about copper filled Kull marks.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...nlayed+kaskara

Best regards,
Ed

mross · 19th September 2019, 07:29 PM

Excellent! Thanks. Brass inlay makes sense it, I did not think it was copper. So it looks to be around 1847 or so?

Just followed the link above and saw my sword at the end of the discussion. Cool. One point of interest, on mine it has two flys one is under the crossguard. That would make a pretty convincing argument it was made at the time the blade was made and before the cross guard was added. So a new question; How did these sword parts come together? Was a complete sword made in Solingen or were blades shipped to Africa to be assembled from local parts there?

19th September 2019, 03:31 PM	#1
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Kaskara thoughts, please. I won this kaskara off of eprey. It had enough red flags that I did not use the buy it now option but put in a low bid with a lot of hope. I won it as the only bidder which made me even more concerned that the red flags where seen by others who decided not to bite. This is a completely new area for me so my experience is limited. This was the eprey banner, "Superb European bladed Kaskara Solingen likely 18th century North African sword" The orb and cross and standing cat had copper inlays. This worried me that they may not be inlays at but just drawn. The markings seemed to be in a differnt place then my referenece(All my reference is Ed Hunly's articles. THANKS Ed). It also had the fly markings. The crossguard seemed to be of the type; Sammaniya, small flare forged iron. WHich matched the sellers age guess. THe markings are; Fly, orb and cross, and standing cat. THe fullers really bothered me as they looked very crude. But the fullers and blade shape matched the type; Dukkeri abu Dubban. I have this blade in hand and am still stumped. The fullers are not well done but do not seem to far off from the reference. The fly is there, twice. one is hiding under the cross piece. THe orb and cat are indeed inlaid and not painted or drawn as I feared. I cannot say what the metal is could be copper but it has a odd patina. The blade is unsharpened in the ricasso area. The sharpest area is near the tip which is still quite sharp the rest was sharpened but is not as sharp as the tip area. There seems to be some file marks on the edges, which could point to repro but... Oh, he!! I just can't tell so what are your thoughts. If it's a repro that explains me as the only bidder and it's a lesson, if it's the real deal then it was the deal of the century. Don't be afraid to be brutal or blunt. I've been collecting for years and do not offend easily. Attached Images

19th September 2019, 03:33 PM	#2
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	one more pic I do have a pic of the sword in total but am having problems getting it uploaded. I may have to retake it tonight. Attached Images

19th September 2019, 05:30 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	Not my area of collecting but I think that you have well done! Have attached some seller pictures, they are not bad so they show it well. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

19th September 2019, 05:44 PM	#6
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 391	Mross, I'm glad the kaskara essays were useful. I agree with both Iain and Jim. Well done. I would differ with the seller as to age. R. Cronau's book attributes all three marks to Peter Kull in 1847. Bezdek gives the cat and cross & orb to Peter Kull (1830-1870) and the fly to Samuel Kull (1847-1860). Back in July we had a good discussion about copper filled Kull marks. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...nlayed+kaskara Best regards, Ed Last edited by Edster; 19th September 2019 at 07:22 PM.

19th September 2019, 07:29 PM	#7
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Excellent! Thanks. Brass inlay makes sense it, I did not think it was copper. So it looks to be around 1847 or so? Just followed the link above and saw my sword at the end of the discussion. Cool. One point of interest, on mine it has two flys one is under the crossguard. That would make a pretty convincing argument it was made at the time the blade was made and before the cross guard was added. So a new question; How did these sword parts come together? Was a complete sword made in Solingen or were blades shipped to Africa to be assembled from local parts there? Last edited by mross; 19th September 2019 at 07:58 PM.

19th September 2019, 03:35 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	Far as I can see it is exactly what it appears to be. Good quality guard and Solingen export blade. Other buyers may have been put off by the hilt condition and lack of scabbard? Congrats on a good deal. A solid piece in terms of the surviving components.

19th September 2019, 05:06 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,745	Well done MRoss!!!! This is a great example with outstanding blade and the guard! These are of course the key components and regardless of the grip condition, this acquisition is important and especially for those of us who are focused on the history of these weapons. The poor condition of the hilt suggests that this sword has probably been static for some time, thus has avoided the clutches of crafty dealers and innovative sellers. Iain, it has been a while since we have looked at these 'latten' (inlaid brass) markings in the Sudanese context. We had discussed the possibility that these schiavona type blades may have been produced in Solingen specifically for this North African market. Is this still a viable theory?