THE ENGLISH LONG BOW.

[Peter Hudson]

I understand and to some extent sympathise with your belief in the English adoption of the Long Bow from the Welsh...however the weapon originates in paleolithic times . I do however think that the Longbow was taken to a much higher level so although it may have been inspired by Welsh performance it was in the English hands that it was perfected..Anyway it is still often called The Welsh Longbow.

Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery

I QUOTE"Origins and ancient archery
The oldest known evidence of the bow and arrow comes from South African sites such as Sibudu Cave, where the remains of bone and stone arrowheads have been found dating approximately 72,000 to 60,000 years ago.[4][5][6][7][8][9] Based on indirect evidence, the bow also seems to have appeared or reappeared later in Eurasia, near the transition from the Upper Paleolithic to the Mesolithic. The earliest definite remains of bow and arrow from Europe are possible fragments from Germany found at Mannheim-Vogelstang dated 17,500 to 18,000 years ago, and at Stellmoor dated 11,000 years ago. Azilian points found in Grotte du Bichon, Switzerland, alongside the remains of both a bear and a hunter, with flint fragments found in the bear's third vertebra, suggest the use of arrows at 13,500 years ago.[10] Other signs of its use in Europe come from the Stellmoor [de] in the Ahrensburg valley [de] north of Hamburg, Germany and dates from the late Paleolithic, about 10,000–9000 BC. The arrows were made of pine and consisted of a main shaft and a 15–20-centimetre-long (5+7⁄8–7+7⁄8 in) fore shaft with a flint point. There are no definite earlier bows; previous pointed shafts are known, but may have been launched by spear-throwers rather than bows. The oldest bows known so far comes from the Holmegård swamp in Denmark. At the site of Nataruk in Turkana County, Kenya, obsidian bladelets found embedded in a skull and within the thoracic cavity of another skeleton, suggest the use of stone-tipped arrows as weapons about 10,000 years ago.[11] Bows eventually replaced the spear-thrower as the predominant means for launching shafted projectiles, on every continent except Australasia, though spear-throwers persisted alongside the bow in parts of the Americas, notably Mexico and among the Inuit.

Bows and arrows have been present in Egyptian and neighboring Nubian culture since its respective predynastic and Pre-Kerma origins. In the Levant, artifacts that could be arrow-shaft straighteners are known from the Natufian culture, (c. 10,800–8,300 BC) onwards. The Khiamian and PPN A shouldered Khiam-points may well be arrowheads.

Classical civilizations, notably the Assyrians, Greeks, Armenians, Persians, Parthians, Romans, Indians, Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese fielded large numbers of archers in their armies. Akkadians were the first to use composite bows in war according to the victory stele of Naram-Sin of Akkad.[12] Egyptians referred to Nubia as "Ta-Seti," or "The Land of the Bow," since the Nubians were known to be expert archers, and by the 16th Century BC Egyptians were using the composite bow in warfare.[13] The Bronze Age Aegean Cultures were able to deploy a number of state-owned specialized bow makers for warfare and hunting purposes already from the 15th century BC.[14] The Welsh longbow proved its worth for the first time in Continental warfare at the Battle of Crécy.[15] In the Americas archery was widespread at European contact.[16]

Archery was highly developed in Asia. The Sanskrit term for archery, dhanurveda, came to refer to martial arts in general. In East Asia, Goguryeo, one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea was well known for its regiments of exceptionally skilled archers.[17][18]"UNQUOTE.

Regards,
Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

Worth recording some artwork here...and in the next post I will describe the effect of armour after being hit by hard tipped arrows...

Peter Hudson.

[fernando]

I wonder if the illustration of the various types of arrows shown in post #4 reflect the type's used in Long Bow arrows.
It is written that, those were mostly the Bodkin type, of heavy pointy square cross section, with great perforation power. Therefore, this type of arrow was used against heavy infantry or short-range cavalry. It is said that, these arrows were very effective against chainmail, however, they could bounce off plate armor if they didn't land perpendicular to the surface. They were relatively 'standardized' and mass produced; between 400,000 and 800,000 arrows were needed for a campaign.
The 3,500 arrows found in the wreckage of the Mary Rose measure between 61 and 81 cm (76 cm on average) and are cut from poplar or ash.



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[fernando]

The Long Bow in action in Shrewsbury (1403) and the skills of John Bradmore.


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[kai]

Of course, the Asian compound bow also needs to be mentioned as a highly advanced distance weapon for military use.

Also the ancient method of javelin/"dart" plus "spear" thrower tends to be overlooked as an extremely efficient long-range projectile!

Regards,
Kai

[Peter Hudson]

Of course, the Asian compound bow also needs to be mentioned as a highly advanced distance weapon for military use.

Hello Kai, Indeed my bow is a Korean Short Bow and I have that in mind as well as Turkish and others. Im not sure about darts and Javelins etc and that could be another subject...although Border Rievers carried a Latch which was a small crossbow that fired a small arrow like a dart almost...
Regards Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

The question a lot of people ask is what is the furthest an arrow can be fired... The answer is that the Turkish Footbow appears to have that record... and this can be viewed at https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-l...medieval-times

The weapon fires an extraordinary arrow which has no feathers and is much thicker in the middle ... rather like an aircraft fusilage and a remarkable and aerodynamic design for its day.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by fernando

The Long Bow in action in Shrewsbury (1403) and the skills of John Bradmore.


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Yes interesting bit of kit... Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LYeyO3Oa8o for a video covering the mediaeval surgical removal of arrowheads.

Peter Hudson.

[urbanspaceman]

This is a fascinating and much overlooked subject Peter, well-done for establishing this thread.
I am slowly working my way through the various links posted... thank-you.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

This is a fascinating and much overlooked subject Peter, well-done for establishing this thread.
I am slowly working my way through the various links posted... thank-you.

Hello Kieth, Yes it is fascinating... and if you get a spare moment look at how Lars Anderson sees the Archery game. See https://www.google.com/search?q=arch...hrome&ie=UTF-8 Essentially he throws away the rule book and goes back to basic principles ... Regards Peter.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by fernando

I wonder if the illustration of the various types of arrows shown in post #4 reflect the type's used in Long Bow arrows.
It is written that, those were mostly the Bodkin type, of heavy pointy square cross section, with great perforation power. Therefore, this type of arrow was used against heavy infantry or short-range cavalry. It is said that, these arrows were very effective against chainmail, however, they could bounce off plate armor if they didn't land perpendicular to the surface. They were relatively 'standardized' and mass produced; between 400,000 and 800,000 arrows were needed for a campaign.
The 3,500 arrows found in the wreckage of the Mary Rose measure between 61 and 81 cm (76 cm on average) and are cut from poplar or ash.



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Indeed the Bodkin ... Probably the least expensive and best overall performer seen here in the English box below with 8 other variants and in the bigger box European variants. Peter Hudson.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

Indeed the Bodkin ... Probably the least expensive and best overall performer seen here in the English box below with 8 other variants and in the bigger box European variants. Peter Hudson.

Interesting that the English variants seem to have "innies" whereas continental ones have "outies", i.e. with tangs.

[fernando]

I have actually got the wrong impression of the recurved footbow, mostly due to the size of the picture.
Some of these beasts can be very heavy (200 pounds plus) and are used primarily today for flight shooting. A sort of Olympic sport, so to say. Notwithstanding this technique is based on historical inspiration


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[Peter Hudson]

In searching for more detail on Korean Bows I discovered a stone age find of a set of arrowheads in stone... and each almost 20 centimetres long .

Seev https://www.museum.go.kr/site/eng/re...w?relicId=2043

[Peter Hudson]

Worth recording some artwork here...

[Victrix]

Worth mentioning that it took a lot of training and required important skill to be an effective longbow archer. Their training affected the physical composure of their bodies to the extent that their remains show signs of their training. The crossbow was an innovation in that it required less training and strength to use.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Victrix

... The crossbow was an innovation in that it required less training and strength to use.

Infinitely much less training indeed. However crossbow bolts departed with a rather higher power strenght; some armour could be perforated with them.Their handicap was the time they took to re-arm.



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[werecow]

Have you guys been following Tod Cutler's bit of experimental archeology regarding longbows versus armor? That guy is having a ton of fun with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZot...xu7ffW2Hf5s32k

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by werecow

Have you guys been following Tod Cutler's bit of experimental archeology regarding longbows versus armor? That guy is having a ton of fun with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZot...xu7ffW2Hf5s32k

Tod’s material on the use of longbows and crossbows has really opened my eyes to some of the misconceptions on these weapons. By no means concise, but it is a fantastic body of work, that’s been well presented.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

...however the weapon originates in paleolithic times ...

Maybe my bad; i was only focusing on the thread topic, the English (or Welch) long bow and its influence in (low) Medieval warfare, not paleolithic bows.


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