Share your miniature blades!

[Athanase]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Nice thread.

Would like to see some more matchboxes as well

I had the matchbox specialy for you (betwen 1872 and 1892)

Tow mini Kriss with pamor blade.

The first overlength : 15,4 cm (6,1'' )

The second overlength : 15,2cm (6'')

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Athanase

I had the matchbox specialy for you (betwen 1872 and 1892)

Tow mini Kriss with pamor blade.

The first overlength : 15,4 cm (6,1'' )

The second overlength : 15,2cm (6'')

Wow, never seen this sort of keris jimat!

[Mickey the Finn]

Mr. Osobist, I was about to ask if you're an Afghanistan veteran, but then I noticed that some people collect matchboxes. I used to collect cigarette packages when I was a kid. Then I switched to tarot cards and other things.
Mr. Sajen, มีดหมอ is perhaps the Thai word commonly used to refer to such articles. I find it transliterated as "meed mor". The transliteration into Latin letters may or may not accurately reflect the actual pronunciation. I find the word translated variously, on assorted webpages, as "knife", "lancet", "doctor's knife", "exorcist's knife", or "sorcerer's magic knife". The richness of the nuances of meaning can be lost in translation. A few of the problems with translations are: they may be a "rough and ready", improvised, or ad hoc solution intended to convey the "general idea", Mickey Moused up by a non-linguistically inclined layman who, in addition, is no "gunpowder inventor". Certain subtitled movies sometimes illustrate this; movies with the original audio of the dialogue dubbed over are even better, and so much worse.
The "word-for-word" translation is, in some languages, an impossibility. In those instances where it can be pulled off, the end result in the target language sometimes reads like a wooden shoe that's too small.
Unless it's explicitly stated, I'm left guessing as to whether the intent was to translate as literally as possible, to convey the meaning of an idiomatic expression in the source language, to interpret, or some ad hoc/ improvised/ variable/ combination/ "play it by ear"/ "fly by the seat of the pants" method.
How does one convey the meaning of "mumbo jumbo" into Swahili? Is "hoc est corpus" an accurate translation into Latin of "hocus pocus? Is "abracadabra" a good interpretation into English of "sim sala bim", or would it be best to leave it untranslated? Should "alakazam" be translated to "sim sala bim" if German is the target language? If I don't know the source language of a word (it's not necessarily the same as the language of origin of the word), translation or interpretation of "nostrum" or "patrem" are shots in the dark. "Sama suku" from Bahasa Indonesia to Finnish and vice versa is the only example which comes to mind that doesn't present very much of a conundrum.
I think I recall that Bambang Harsrinuksmo in "Ensiklopedi Keris" gave specific measurements which enabled one to distinguish a patrem from a "keris proper/ standard keris", and a patrem from a keris jimat.
The really tiny ones (<8cm. or so) appear to be made of brass and/or (I'm guessing) some other kind of copper alloy which can be patinated almost black.. I doubt very much that it's swasa, or any other alloy containing Au or Ag, though I could be wrong.
Pics can be found by Googling "keris jimat". Does anyone know what metals are used to make these, and the technique used to achieve the contrast in colours?

[ariel]

European agents of serious swordmaking companies used to carry miniature copies of the real wares in their traveling cases. Prospective buyers could pick and choose. But dating them to the 1960s seems to exclude this possibility. The Bebut ( curved bladed kindjal) from the Osobist's collection carries a niello inscription on the scabbard "Kavkaz" written in the old Russian style: a local souvenir. I guess that the mini Nihonto examples were also souvenirs.
There is a Polish book of a Kris collector ( I vaguely remember he might have been an ambassador to Indonesia). His most important item was a very miniature Kris, gifted to him by Sukarno.
What was the purpose of the rest of Indonesian, Thai and Philippine mini daggers is a mystery to me. They would not have any practical value as self-defense weapons, so souvenirs is the first thing that comes into my mind.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by ariel

There is a Polish book of a Kris collector ( I vaguely remember he might have been an ambassador to Indonesia). His most important item was a very miniature Kris, gifted to him by Sukarno.
What was the purpose of the rest of Indonesian, Thai and Philippine mini daggers is a mystery to me. They would not have any practical value as self-defense weapons, so souvenirs is the first thing that comes into my mind.

Hello Ariel,

Small keris like the one shown in post #1 this thread are jimats.
I don't think it's easy like this, some of the ones from me showed SEA items have a practical value, but by others like the gunong I would agree.
The two mini swords from Willem and me are collector items, I hesitate to call them souvenirs.

Regards,
Detlef

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Sajen

The two mini swords from Willem and me are collector items, I hesitate to call them souvenirs.

Regards,
Detlef

I have no problem calling my miniature jimpul a souvernir.
It is to small to be used as anything. Not even as letter opener.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by asomotif

I have no problem calling my miniature jimpul a souvernir.
It is to small to be used as anything. Not even as letter opener.

I am also not, but since they are worked from silver they are somewhat expensive souvenirs and special for collectors.

[ariel]

I checked the internet.
Price of Sterling Silver ( 92.5%) is $20.11 per ounce or $0.71 per gram.
A McDonalds burger with small fries would cost more than the entire silver-cladding of a miniature kindjal ( scabbard and handle).

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by ariel

I checked the internet.
Price of Sterling Silver ( 92.5%) is $20.11 per ounce or $0.71 per gram.
A McDonalds burger with small fries would cost more than the entire silver-cladding of a miniature kindjal ( scabbard and handle).

I prefer the silver miniatures, and not just because they are cheaper.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by ariel

I checked the internet.
Price of Sterling Silver ( 92.5%) is $20.11 per ounce or $0.71 per gram.
A McDonalds burger with small fries would cost more than the entire silver-cladding of a miniature kindjal ( scabbard and handle).

Hi Ariel,

Like Willem I prefer the silver miniatures! And don't forget that some work is involved to make such a miniature.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

These certainly were not cheap(ly made) souvenirs. However, they had no place in the originating cultures and were specifically made for selling to colonial "guests" - so, high-end souvenir might well be a reasonable description...

There are also those tiny jewellery blades, usually from silver and often made as brooches.

Regards,
Kai

[Ian]

Originally Posted by ariel

... What was the purpose of the rest of Indonesian, Thai and Philippine mini daggers is a mystery to me. They would not have any practical value as self-defense weapons, so souvenirs is the first thing that comes into my mind.

Ariel, a lot of the small Thai knives are spiritual talismans called meed mor, but often referred to as "priest knives" in the older European literature. The composition of the knives and the religious blessings they receive have significance in the culture of origin.

[asomotif]

A mini pedang. 1st I have ever seen.