dussage german sword

[Samik]

Just to add to Jim's splendid post, the word "Tesák" has many variations among central-east European languages (IIRC "tasak" in Polish etc.; in Czech and Slovak the word literary means a "fang"; AFAIK Hungarians seem to have a distinct word for it, which I sadly don't remember). Essentially it denotes a single edged "messer like " weapon. The term may also loosely apply to falchions , hangers and the like. When a modern Czech/Slovak historian or smith describes a falchion (sword hilt) rather than a more "messerish" (knife like riveted hilt with a nagel) weapon he/she simply uses the phrase Tesák Mečový - i.e. a Sword-Tesák . The Tesák weapons of the 15th and early 16th centuries are basically the same thing as Germanic messers , though there may be some slight "stylistic" differences.

Hope I didn't confuse the matter more than needed

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Samik for the very kind words!!!
Also, thank you for adding the linguistic insight, which actually helps very much, and transliterations always cause confusion......while sound and well informed explanations tend to resolve that, as you have here.

All the very best,
Jim

[Samik]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Also, thank you for adding the linguistic insight, which actually helps very much, and transliterations always cause confusion......
Jim

Indeed and the confusion was also quite apparent even among the western martial art practitioners back in the "early days" when messer was mixed up with a falchion and so on; not to mentioned the Eastern European perspective which confuses up things further! I suspect the similarity between Dussage and Tesák may come from the fact that one of the fencing guilds (MarxBruders or FreiFecheters?) had an establishment in Prague and mutual influences might have had occurred. A great deal of influence seem to also come from the German side as well. For example the archaism in Czech for the phrase "to fence" is "fechtit" and "fechtovať" in Slovak (you get the idea). The modern word for fencing in Slovak and Czech on the other hand is "šerm" which iirc comes from Italian scherma.

Regards ,
Samuel

[A Senefelder]

There are a good selection of pics of most every type of curve bladed sword including messers, dussacks and sinclair sabers in this album http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/thumbnails.php?album=40

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Samik

Indeed and the confusion was also quite apparent even among the western martial art practitioners back in the "early days" when messer was mixed up with a falchion and so on; not to mentioned the Eastern European perspective which confuses up things further! I suspect the similarity between Dussage and Tesák may come from the fact that one of the fencing guilds (MarxBruders or FreiFecheters?) had an establishment in Prague and mutual influences might have had occurred. A great deal of influence seem to also come from the German side as well. For example the archaism in Czech for the phrase "to fence" is "fechtit" and "fechtovať" in Slovak (you get the idea). The modern word for fencing in Slovak and Czech on the other hand is "šerm" which iirc comes from Italian scherma.

Regards ,
Samuel

Absolutely outstanding additions Samuel, and beautifully explained, which adds even more perspective.
Often when relying on contemporary narratives or accounts in historical literature these kinds of transliterations and interpolations can really play havoc in our research.

All the best,
Jim

[cornelistromp]

hello,

here is one out of my collection 1570-1580, I will post some better pics later.

there is a lot of literature:
Seitz blankwaffen, puype Visser collection part 3, puype van mauritz naar munster.

regards

[A Senefelder]

You've got a thumb ring on yours, i'm jealous, mine don't have them ( I own the two posted above ) and I love thumb rings. After my first encounter with them on a Wallon style cavalry broadsword ( c. 1650 ) I owned a number of years back I was sold on the feel in the hand of them. There is a security on the backside or drawthrough protion of a cut that comes with them that seems to make for a smoother cut in my personal expirience ( there also seems to be less wobble at the wrist after the blade comes free from the target when cutting with one ).

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

You've got a thumb ring on yours, i'm jealous, mine don't have them ( I own the two posted above ) and I love thumb rings. After my first encounter with them on a Wallon style cavalry broadsword ( c. 1650 ) I owned a number of years back I was sold on the feel in the hand of them. There is a security on the backside or drawthrough protion of a cut that comes with them that seems to make for a smoother cut in my personal expirience ( there also seems to be less wobble at the wrist after the blade comes free from the target when cutting with one ).

Hi, yes you are absolutely right, it gives a lot more stability to the swordhand. specially on hilts where the forefinger can not go over the guard to the ricasso of the blade to give additional stability. ( swords/rapiers with a plate-filled ringguard and all kind basket hilt types)

regards from Holland