Please help on 1796 HC sword marks

[celtan]

Hi Nando, nice to see you agree with me. : )



I'm always learning. I though the Portugueses were English allies from the outset, which explains Spain's attacks on your country at the very beginning. Spain became an reticent Napoleon's ally only after the British Navy attacked a Spanish Convoy during Peace Time, forcing the country into an open confrontation with England and their allies.

Besides, this sword is _British_. I find it difficult to internalize the concept of the Brits arming a Portuguese unit that would serve Ol'Nappy.



Since Portuguese and Spanish Military abbreviations seem identical, couldn't this be a Spanish sword obtained as British military assistance, after Spain was invaded by Nappy, and they became enemies?

The relations between Spanish, French, Portuguese and British during the Napoleonic Wars were incredibly complex, and sometimes downright bizarre,

Best

¡ Oro,Vino y Mujeres..!



M

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Ian,
It is so nice to have you here.
Yes, it all indicates that those are portuguese marks.
Mind you, it would be 2nd. Regiment and not 11th. If you observe, this number is in Roman digits (II).
If such were the case, the 2nd. Cavalry was licenced in 1807 to integrate the 3d. Regiment of Army Cavalry, the future so called Portuguese Legion, that was mobilized to serve Napoleon in his international campaings. However your sword could have been marked before this took place.
The initials 2ª Cª fit well as 2nd. Company and the nº 45 could well be the trooper (sergeant-officer?) number.
Obviously my coments should be taken with a certain reserve, as i am no scholar in the matter.
Once again, i register your presence in this Forum with great satisfaction.
Fernando

[celtan]

Nando,

I'm really interested to hear from the "Portuguese legion".

In Spain even after the French invaded the country, there still were many "afrancesados" who actively supported Napoleon and his Brother, "Pepe Botella". There even was a Hussar Corps that continued serving the French.

After the French were defeated in the peninsula, those either fled to France or perished in the hands of the civilian irregulars. it was a bloody affair, just like everything else related to that damned war. The way I see it, basically, every one of the parties involved in same behaved abominably...

Then, similar things happened during the American Revolution, Yugoslavia, The-hundred-years-War, post-WWII France etc...

Coming to think of it, while all wars are nasty affairs, some are worse than others, specially when they have a civilan/partisan component to them.

Just ramblin' !

In fact, I still have a couple french pieces from those days.

Merry Xmas!

M

Originally Posted by celtan

Hi Nando, nice to see you agree with me. : )



I'm always learning. I though the Portugueses were English allies from the outset...

M

[fernando]

Hi Manolo

Originally Posted by celtan

... I'm really interested to hear from the "Portuguese legion". ... Merry Xmas!...

Concerning the LEGIÃO PORTUGUESA:

It all started when Portugal decided not to agree with the Continental blockade, which would inhibit the British ships to touch continental lands, besides arresting resident British subjects and confiscate their patrimony. In view if that, the French promoted in October 1807 the Fontainebleau treaty, signed by Duroc, on behalf of Napoleon and Eugénio Isquierdo for Carlos IV of Spain, at where was decided to split Portugal in three parts. Northern Lusitania to be ruled by the King of dismantled Etrúria , the Algarves by the Spaniard Manuel Godoy and the country centre by the French.
To enforce this, Napoleon sent to Lisbon an army of 20000 men, commanded by Junot.
Meanwhile the Portuguese prince regent, later King Dom João VI, adviced by the British, escaped to Brazil, accompanied by all his court, some troops and all possible wealth, being escorted by a British fleet.
His mediocre behaviour included the advice to the people he left behind to receive the French as being their friends.
This way the first regiments of Junot army arrived in Lisbon all ragged, disarmed and exausted by starve, caused by the violent march, in a rush to try and catch the Portuguese prince still in Lisbon, which didn’t happen for a couple miles. The major part of the forces was still struggling to overcome the difficult routes of Beira and Estremadura. Finding no resistance by the Portuguese, Junot immediately took control of the capital and started discharging the then weak Portuguese army, sending the men home and retaining the best elements, in order to form a corpse of five to six thousand, sending them to France in groups of one thousand each, making them to swear oath to Napoleon. These guys have then being in campaign from Wagram to Moscow.
The Portuguese legion was extinguished in 1813.
The history of the formation till the extinction of this force is rather well documented in a book written by P. Boppe, of which i have a copy in French. I don’t remember why i have acquired this work, as illiterate as i am; must have been when i went through a phase of reading about the French Invasions (so called Peninsular War).




Feliz navidad to you too

Fernando

.

[celtan]

The Spanish had a similar unit under the Marques de La Romana, serving in Denmark. They were auppossed to be used in the invasion of Sweden under... Marcellin Marbot?

Instead, after Spain was invaded by her former ally, they turned their backs on the French and left in British ships, eventually arriving at the Peninsular theatre. Of course, the Brits would say, "serves her right", but then, Spain didn't want to get into that war at all.

Reminds me of Italy and Rumania in WWII.

All this stuff about fighting between former comrades-in-arms, and playing kissy-kissy with a previous enemy, albeit justifiably so, makes me ...queasy.

Someone once said that it's easier to write Science Fiction than Historic literature, because Sci-Fi at least needs to make sense...

Felices Navidades to y'all!

M

My German descendant of Ian's m1796