Question about barrel stamping

Jim McDougall · 24th September 2009, 04:39 AM

Dave, in continuing to try to help with the marking, I realize in rereading your posts you already have obviously well established knowledge on these guns, so please accept my suggestions as just that. I have very limited resources here with me, especially on guns, but I always enjoy a challenge, especially if I can learn from it !

You say the marking is a man holding a spear. There were armourers in Germany in the 17th century that used standing figures holding indiscernable weapons, one was Hoppe (Hoppie) of Solingen c.1630; the other Horman Michael of Munich c.1670. While these are shown as 'swordsmiths' ("Armourers Marks" Gyngell, 1959, p.39) I am thinking that perhaps the image might have been copied by a gun or barrel maker in Pennsylvania in latter 17th into the 18th century. It is well known that the Pennsylvania 'Duetsch' (not Dutch) establishing gunmaking as early as c.1719. The well known Jaeger rifles were progenitors of the 'Kentucky' and Pennsylvania long rifles.

I have found a number of references that may discuss more on possibly determining more of the form of this rifle, but as you note you are more focused on the marking. Most of the references I have seen that reference these obscure markings on the trade items and various weaponry in America in colonial times seem to pay more attention to tomahawks and axes, but there must be others that address the guns..still looking.

Manolo, extremely well said observations!!!! I agree many museums are sad indeed in the way they deny proper care to important pieces of history, and fail to share them with those who seek preserving history, regardless of bureaucratic budgets and ajendas.

All best regards,
Jim

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24th September 2009, 04:39 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,296	Dave, in continuing to try to help with the marking, I realize in rereading your posts you already have obviously well established knowledge on these guns, so please accept my suggestions as just that. I have very limited resources here with me, especially on guns, but I always enjoy a challenge, especially if I can learn from it ! You say the marking is a man holding a spear. There were armourers in Germany in the 17th century that used standing figures holding indiscernable weapons, one was Hoppe (Hoppie) of Solingen c.1630; the other Horman Michael of Munich c.1670. While these are shown as 'swordsmiths' ("Armourers Marks" Gyngell, 1959, p.39) I am thinking that perhaps the image might have been copied by a gun or barrel maker in Pennsylvania in latter 17th into the 18th century. It is well known that the Pennsylvania 'Duetsch' (not Dutch) establishing gunmaking as early as c.1719. The well known Jaeger rifles were progenitors of the 'Kentucky' and Pennsylvania long rifles. I have found a number of references that may discuss more on possibly determining more of the form of this rifle, but as you note you are more focused on the marking. Most of the references I have seen that reference these obscure markings on the trade items and various weaponry in America in colonial times seem to pay more attention to tomahawks and axes, but there must be others that address the guns..still looking. Manolo, extremely well said observations!!!! I agree many museums are sad indeed in the way they deny proper care to important pieces of history, and fail to share them with those who seek preserving history, regardless of bureaucratic budgets and ajendas. All best regards, Jim