Pattani Naga Keris

Greybeard · 19th August 2009, 05:54 AM

Alam Shah, BluErf

I really appreciate your valuable information! I know next to nothing about Malay keris, because I normally limit my keris collecting to Javanese pieces.

It`s new to me (and important to know) that Northern Malay keris usually don`t have luk higher than nine. It`s really a pity that I cannot provide pictures. The keris in question is overall very Javanese in appearance, with a very wavy (rengkol) 13-luk blade. Even the hilt/scabbard are in Javanese Surakarta style ...

The feature that let me think of a Pattanese keris consists of the naga`s head which is simply executed, without much detail, but not really crude. The beard underneath the naga`s head forms a perfect round hole in the gandik. The pictures of a very similar naga`s head were posted by Mans on March 2, 2005 (thread "Is this a Javanese blade?" by BluErf).

And finally: What does "Naga Timbul" (seller`s designation) mean? A Google search lead me to some quite ugly tourist type "naga keris", offered on ebay, which indeed sport the same naga`s head as mine, but these are a whole lot cruder ...

Well, I could not resist. I like this keris, and in the meantime I purchased it. I just hope I bought a good one ...

Many thanks again for your help and best regards from (at the present) hot Switzerland,

Heinz

David · 19th August 2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

The keris in question is overall very Javanese in appearance, with a very wavy (rengkol) 13-luk blade. Even the hilt/scabbard are in Javanese Surakarta style ...

Well Heinz, it sounds to me like you may have bought yourself a Javanese keris after all.
Here is the link to the thread BluErf posted back in 2005. Links are always helpful.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...javanese+blade

Greybeard · 20th August 2009, 05:35 AM

Hi David

Thank you for the link. Yes, the old threads are very helpful; I`ve printed out a lot of them.

I agree that I`ve probably bought a Javanese naga piece -- which is just fine since I primarily collect Javanese keris.

Regards,

Heinz

PenangsangII · 21st August 2009, 10:26 AM

the keris in question is an "owah-owahan" naga..... IMHO, the naga was made recently although the keris is quite old

Greybeard · 21st August 2009, 12:21 PM

Hi PenangsangII

An altered keris? Why not: This was my first thought, too, when I saw the pictures provided by the seller. But on the other hand, it`s always difficult to form an opinion by photos alone ...

Well, the keris will probably arrive here next week, then I will see ... I would certainly prefer an all-original old naga keris, but these are very rare (and very expensive), I think.

Thanks and regards,

Heinz

David · 21st August 2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

the keris in question is an "owah-owahan" naga..... IMHO, the naga was made recently although the keris is quite old

I'm sorry, did i miss something? Have images of this keris been shown somewhere or do you have personal knowledge of this piece?

Greybeard · 21st August 2009, 02:39 PM

Actually, I`m wondering about the same thing ...

Heinz

PenangsangII · 22nd August 2009, 09:30 AM

the keris in question was discussed in an open forum last year. I personally know most of the forumites in that Malay forum (not exactly a forum, but a forum-like websites, i.e multiply.com). Though there were many opinions regarding the "pattani naga blade", me and some friends (a keris group) concluded among ourselves that the naga was carved more recently (and crudely done at that) whilst the blade may have some age to it.... hope my post does not ruffle any feathers...... I am quite vocal that many Malaysian keris collecters, esp those who have vested interests (collecters cum keris sellers/ vendors) despise what ever my keris group represents

David · 16th September 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well Heinz, it sounds to me like you may have bought yourself a Javanese keris after all.
Here is the link to the thread BluErf posted back in 2005. Links are always helpful.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...javanese+blade

Now that i have actually seen this keris i do not think that it's origins are Jawa.

Greybeard · 17th September 2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Now that i have actually seen this keris i do not think that it's origins are Jawa.

Hi David

The pictures above are posted by Gustav, not by me. Gustav`s keris is absolutely different from mine -- mine has 13 luk and is all over Javanese in appearance, including its dress.

Gustav, your keris is very nice; I like it!

Regards,

Heinz

David · 17th September 2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Hi David

The pictures above are posted by Gustav, not by me. Gustav`s keris is absolutely different from mine -- mine has 13 luk and is all over Javanese in appearance, including its dress.

Gustav, your keris is very nice; I like it!

Regards,

Heinz

Sorry, my bad, i look quickly, saw it was from a poster whose name began with "G" and made the wrong assumption.
I would still like to see yours someday Heinz if you ever get the technology to post it.
Interesting blade Gustav. Where do you think it is from?

Greybeard · 17th September 2009, 07:28 AM

No need to be sorry, David.

I can well understand that you would like to see pictures of my Naga keris, and I would like to show it as well. But I`m sure that I`ll be able to post pictures in the near future.

Best regards,

Heinz

Gustav · 17th September 2009, 09:24 AM

Alam Shah, Greybeard and David, thank you for the comments

David, I have really no experience with this. I thought, it would be a peninsular keris.

BluErf · 17th September 2009, 04:12 PM

Btw, from the dress and hilt, these do not look like peninsula kerises.

19th August 2009, 05:54 AM	#1
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Alam Shah, BluErf I really appreciate your valuable information! I know next to nothing about Malay keris, because I normally limit my keris collecting to Javanese pieces. It`s new to me (and important to know) that Northern Malay keris usually don`t have luk higher than nine. It`s really a pity that I cannot provide pictures. The keris in question is overall very Javanese in appearance, with a very wavy (rengkol) 13-luk blade. Even the hilt/scabbard are in Javanese Surakarta style ... The feature that let me think of a Pattanese keris consists of the naga`s head which is simply executed, without much detail, but not really crude. The beard underneath the naga`s head forms a perfect round hole in the gandik. The pictures of a very similar naga`s head were posted by Mans on March 2, 2005 (thread "Is this a Javanese blade?" by BluErf). And finally: What does "Naga Timbul" (seller`s designation) mean? A Google search lead me to some quite ugly tourist type "naga keris", offered on ebay, which indeed sport the same naga`s head as mine, but these are a whole lot cruder ... Well, I could not resist. I like this keris, and in the meantime I purchased it. I just hope I bought a good one ... Many thanks again for your help and best regards from (at the present) hot Switzerland, Heinz Last edited by Greybeard; 19th August 2009 at 07:24 AM.

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20th August 2009, 05:35 AM	#3
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Hi David Thank you for the link. Yes, the old threads are very helpful; I`ve printed out a lot of them. I agree that I`ve probably bought a Javanese naga piece -- which is just fine since I primarily collect Javanese keris. Regards, Heinz

21st August 2009, 10:26 AM	#4
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	the keris in question is an "owah-owahan" naga..... IMHO, the naga was made recently although the keris is quite old

21st August 2009, 12:21 PM	#5
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Hi PenangsangII An altered keris? Why not: This was my first thought, too, when I saw the pictures provided by the seller. But on the other hand, it`s always difficult to form an opinion by photos alone ... Well, the keris will probably arrive here next week, then I will see ... I would certainly prefer an all-original old naga keris, but these are very rare (and very expensive), I think. Thanks and regards, Heinz

21st August 2009, 02:39 PM	#7
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Actually, I`m wondering about the same thing ... Heinz

22nd August 2009, 09:30 AM	#8
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	the keris in question was discussed in an open forum last year. I personally know most of the forumites in that Malay forum (not exactly a forum, but a forum-like websites, i.e multiply.com). Though there were many opinions regarding the "pattani naga blade", me and some friends (a keris group) concluded among ourselves that the naga was carved more recently (and crudely done at that) whilst the blade may have some age to it.... hope my post does not ruffle any feathers...... I am quite vocal that many Malaysian keris collecters, esp those who have vested interests (collecters cum keris sellers/ vendors) despise what ever my keris group represents

17th September 2009, 07:28 AM	#12
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	No need to be sorry, David. I can well understand that you would like to see pictures of my Naga keris, and I would like to show it as well. But I`m sure that I`ll be able to post pictures in the near future. Best regards, Heinz

17th September 2009, 09:24 AM	#13
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Alam Shah, Greybeard and David, thank you for the comments David, I have really no experience with this. I thought, it would be a peninsular keris.

17th September 2009, 04:12 PM	#14
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Btw, from the dress and hilt, these do not look like peninsula kerises.