New Made keris, dhapur Mundarang

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

Hi ganjawulung,
nice to see you here. I thought you gonna comment on my keris, but you're starting another interesting topic here.

Yes Ferry, I will post this interesting topic on Pak Parman for another thread. About your keris, I think Alan has described it in a more comprehensive explanation.

The greneng part, IMHO, was not well executed. For comparison, I am sharing with you these pictures of one Solonese or Surakartan nom-noman keris and your keris' sor-soran part (sorry, copying your pic...)

GANJAWULUNG

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Yes Ferry, I will post this interesting topic on Pak Parman for another thread. About your keris, I think Alan has described it in a more comprehensive explanation.

The greneng part, IMHO, was not well executed. For comparison, I am sharing with you these pictures of one Solonese or Surakartan nom-noman keris and your keris' sor-soran part (sorry, copying your pic...)

GANJAWULUNG

I remember your picture. it is a keris made by Pak Kamdi. a very nice keris with PBX style.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

I remember your picture. it is a keris made by Pak Kamdi. a very nice keris with PBX style.

Not that one, but this one is made by Mbah Kamdi. Almost similar garap, and similar dhapur of Pasopati, but the "kelengan" (pamorless) is older. I don't even know who made it...

GANJAWULUNG

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Not that one, but this one is made by Mbah Kamdi. Almost similar garap, and similar dhapur of Pasopati, but the "kelengan" (pamorless) is older. I don't even know who made it...

GANJAWULUNG

pasopati with ron dha nunut, doublr ron dha....is this out of pakem?
beautiful keris you have there. I'd like to see it some day.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes!!

The ricikan assigned to each blade form were not assigned in a haphazard manner, nor were they assigned for artistic reasons. They were assigned to convey a meaning and for an esoteric purpose. Vary those ricikan in even the slightest degree and the keris has lost its esoteric value, and hence its meaning. If it has lost its meaning it follows that it has lost its name.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

pasopati with ron dha nunut, doublr ron dha....is this out of pakem?
beautiful keris you have there. I'd like to see it some day.

Someday I will ask Mr Haryono Guritno himself on this question too. Because, in his recent "Keris Jawa" book he described pasopati (in some pictures) with such ricikan. Including this 'wellknown' pasopati with "largangsir" pamor -- which he described as made in the period of PB IX (picture below, from "Keris Jawa" page 30)...

GANJAWULUNG

[Marcokeris]

I have too a Pasopati in my home (but without rondonunut).Imo it's another good keris with two color (largansir and ... beraswutan) .
I'll do a pic of this...when i'll come back home from indonesia

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I have too a Pasopati in my home (but without rondonunut).Imo it's another good keris with two color (largansir and ... beraswutan) .
I'll do a pic of this...when i'll come back home from indonesia

do you ment two kind of pamor in one keris? wow that seem wonderful.
I guess my keris is possibly:
1. new made with bad greneng
2. old keris with altered shape. in greneng and wadidang

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Someday I will ask Mr Haryono Guritno himself on this question too. Because, in his recent "Keris Jawa" book he described pasopati (in some pictures) with such ricikan. Including this 'wellknown' pasopati with "largangsir" pamor -- which he described as made in the period of PB IX (picture below, from "Keris Jawa" page 30)...

GANJAWULUNG

I just open Mr.Haryono book and find that the Pasopati keris was estimated as tangguh PB IX. then I remember what Alan said about:

I have in my possession a copy of the Pakem that was prepared by Ngabei Sawikromo for Pakubuwana IX, completed in 1792 (Jawa). PB IX reigned from 1831 to 1893.

This earlier Surakarta Pakem defines a dhapur pasopati as having a ron dha nunut.

I'm now understand that the book 'dhapur' is simply determine the pakem in PB X era and for the keris before PB X era, it has different ricikan.

Then back to my keris, it also might be made with the guidance of pakem before PB X era. by adding ron dha nunut. I'm still wondering about its age, but I guess that I've been miss understood again. poor me. ' price never lies' I bought it cheap and hope the best tangguh for it. ( old PB keris) what a fool.

I never expect my thread would result this long debate about pakem dan ricikan. but I do enjoy this thread. I gain so much knowledge and information from both of you. please forgive me for my short comments. I find it difficult to express my thought in English. Y

Pak Ganjawulung, I'm wondering why you did not give any comment on my keris age. do you afraid of hurting my feeling when you gonna say "you've been tricked again by the keris dealer" . You know well that I really dont care about it. I do have a new strategy dealing with keris dealers. So don't you worry about it. I'm now collecting keris directly from its source. I simply collect keris from people whom keris are not threated well. people who do not apreciated keris as it should be. people who do not want to keep keris in their house. Off course with the help of my dearest mother.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

Pak Ganjawulung, I'm wondering why you did not give any comment on my keris age. do you afraid of hurting my feeling when you gonna say "you've been tricked again by the keris dealer" . You know well that I really dont care about it. I do have a new strategy dealing with keris dealers. So don't you worry about it. I'm now collecting keris directly from its source. I simply collect keris from people whom keris are not threated well. people who do not apreciated keris as it should be. people who do not want to keep keris in their house. Off course with the help of my dearest mother.

Dear Ferry,
I did give you my comment already. And it has already 'trespassing the old pakem' of perkerisan by -- (1) never say not-good thing to someone's keris, although not yet (2) 'ninthing' (tinging, knocking the blade in order to hear the tinging sound of the blade)...

Anyway, someday I hope we'll meet somewhere. Don't forget to bring your kerises...

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

I just open Mr.Haryono book and find that the Pasopati keris was estimated as tangguh PB IX. then I remember what Alan said about:

I have in my possession a copy of the Pakem that was prepared by Ngabei Sawikromo for Pakubuwana IX, completed in 1792 (Jawa). PB IX reigned from 1831 to 1893.

This earlier Surakarta Pakem defines a dhapur pasopati as having a ron dha nunut.

I'm now understand that the book 'dhapur' is simply determine the pakem in PB X era and for the keris before PB X era, it has different ricikan.

Mmmm, no comment on this. I don't even bother what dhapur it is. What I know is, that this "lar gangsir" keris is really a masterpiece I've seen, and that the keris was not made by a mediocre villageois Empu, nor recent Surakartan Empu. I've handled it in my hand once...

Like appreciating paintings. Appreciation cannot merely come through bundles of old books. Sometimes, you must look carefully and thoroughly the masterpieces. Some other (royal) masterpieces in the past are astonishing too. (Lucky, Gusti Poeger had permitted to look at a tiny them, in Sasana Poesaka, a year before karaton was on fire couple years ago). Some of the masterpieces are "di luar pakem". .

One of the astonishing masterpiece I've seen was, a beautiful 'keleng' (pamorless) keris with PB style, with relief of 'goddess in kemben' (kneeling goddes in traditional dress) with only minimal touch of gold kinatah... I don't even know what dhapur it should be. Nyi Lara Kidoel? Just beautiful. This keris now is in a bank locker in Jakarta....

GANJAWULUNG