Sosun Patta translation please

Jim McDougall · 23rd June 2009, 07:10 AM

Thank you so much Rick for your insight on the metallurgy of this fascinating piece! I am always amazed at your astute eye in discerning the sometimes very intricate detail in these blade patterns.
I am hoping this information will help in trying to assess the likely provenance of this sword, which has a hilt quite unusual...really looking forward to seeing more on it when it arrives in Gav's lair!!!!

All the best,
Jim

Gavin Nugent · 27th September 2009, 08:36 PM

It has been some time, images as promised, keeper keeper keeper!!!

http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s085_full.html

I absolutely love this sword and I would have loved to have bought Artzi's Wootz example he recently parted with, it seemed to be of similar form in the blade.
The Sosun is my fav by far, and as a favorite it exceeds even the rarest of Chinese weapons I have in my collection and that is a big call for me.

Gav

Jens Nordlunde · 27th September 2009, 09:16 PM

It seems to me that most, if not all, the armoury markings are
'relativity' new, although the blade/sword could be a lot older .

Gavin Nugent · 27th September 2009, 09:35 PM

Hi Jens,

Yes indeed from talks I have had about this type of text, the markings could well be younger...though as you note the hilt and blade could be much older.
Through conversations with some of your peers in your neck of the woods, it has been noted that this piece is most likely 18th century. How and why the blade was marked as it is, remains a mystery. There is evidence of gold remaining in the script.
Another aspect that I note is a contradiction of sorts, though contradicitons can be many in the study of arms...... The text in my opinion, based on the first character is stamped, I say this because the fuller is "pushed" in at this point, an effect I ponder could have happened whilst the blade had heat in it, I am not saying steel doesn't move when cold but I think such a fine precise character mark with no blemishing around it could not have been struck as it was and do that to a fuller cold without leaving further marks...only speculation for the moment. The contradiction is that the characters also appear to be finely chiseled, are all of varing depth within each character and lines from differing directions can be seen to overlap underlying chiselling and the depth and edges are not cut as a stamp would.....
Then comes to mind is that after a blade is forged, although one can be forged with fullers, they are for the most part applied later when of this quality. Being done after the blade is made and the fuller being pushed in the way it is..... a stamp makes sense......ponderous.

Gav

27th September 2009, 08:36 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Images as promised It has been some time, images as promised, keeper keeper keeper!!! http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s085_full.html I absolutely love this sword and I would have loved to have bought Artzi's Wootz example he recently parted with, it seemed to be of similar form in the blade. The Sosun is my fav by far, and as a favorite it exceeds even the rarest of Chinese weapons I have in my collection and that is a big call for me. Gav Last edited by freebooter; 28th September 2009 at 01:28 AM.

27th September 2009, 09:35 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Could be. Hi Jens, Yes indeed from talks I have had about this type of text, the markings could well be younger...though as you note the hilt and blade could be much older. Through conversations with some of your peers in your neck of the woods, it has been noted that this piece is most likely 18th century. How and why the blade was marked as it is, remains a mystery. There is evidence of gold remaining in the script. Another aspect that I note is a contradiction of sorts, though contradicitons can be many in the study of arms...... The text in my opinion, based on the first character is stamped, I say this because the fuller is "pushed" in at this point, an effect I ponder could have happened whilst the blade had heat in it, I am not saying steel doesn't move when cold but I think such a fine precise character mark with no blemishing around it could not have been struck as it was and do that to a fuller cold without leaving further marks...only speculation for the moment. The contradiction is that the characters also appear to be finely chiseled, are all of varing depth within each character and lines from differing directions can be seen to overlap underlying chiselling and the depth and edges are not cut as a stamp would..... Then comes to mind is that after a blade is forged, although one can be forged with fullers, they are for the most part applied later when of this quality. Being done after the blade is made and the fuller being pushed in the way it is..... a stamp makes sense......ponderous. Gav Last edited by freebooter; 28th September 2009 at 02:25 PM.

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23rd June 2009, 07:10 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,468	Thank you so much Rick for your insight on the metallurgy of this fascinating piece! I am always amazed at your astute eye in discerning the sometimes very intricate detail in these blade patterns. I am hoping this information will help in trying to assess the likely provenance of this sword, which has a hilt quite unusual...really looking forward to seeing more on it when it arrives in Gav's lair!!!! All the best, Jim

27th September 2009, 09:16 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	It seems to me that most, if not all, the armoury markings are 'relativity' new, although the blade/sword could be a lot older .