Random chosen pictures of the Oriental beauties

[Radu Transylvanicus]

On the Caucasian scimitar (I am completely in a new land to me here so have mercy !) is there a chance it is an Azeri sword, the niello was a much exported trade Georgia to Azerbaijan and viceversa so wouldnt make perfect sense to consider Azeri too since the Muslim artwork can be observed !?(Armenia (including Khevsur) and Georgia Orthodox , Daghestan Muslim ...IMHO...)) Wouldnt you say ?

[Jens Nordlunde]

All right Radu, I don’t know!

I have however a few comments to the helmet. I don’t think it looked like that from the start, but if you remove the top ‘hat’, and the decorations (are they Niello?) you will see what the original helmet looked like, and I think it is old, but I wont try to guess how old. Later some creative person found the helmet too good to be melted down, so he modernized it, and I think I can agree that this could have been in late 18th or in 19th century.

[Rivkin]

Originally Posted by Radu Transylvanicus

On the Caucasian scimitar (I am completely in a new land to me here so have mercy !) is there a chance it is an Azeri sword, the niello was a much exported trade Georgia to Azerbaijan and viceversa so wouldnt make perfect sense to consider Azeri too since the Muslim artwork can be observed !?(Armenia (including Khevsur) and Georgia Orthodox , Daghestan Muslim ...IMHO...)) Wouldnt you say ?

Thank you very much for your vote of confidence, although I think that Ariel or Jim would be way more knowledgable on this issue.

Concerning Azerbajan, the weapons' production in this country is greatly underappreciated for two reasons:
a. It lacked big production centers, therefore statistically it's much more likely to have something produced in Dagestan or Georgia rather than Azerbajan.
b. Most of the production was not performed by azeris, moreover there are two distinct possibilities: northern production - lezgins (and therefore the weapons produced are classified as produced in Dagestan), southern production - armenians (and therefore the weapons are classified as Transcaucasian/armenian).

Concerning the motiff - before 1850 most of smiths in Tiflis were muslims. The motiff is similar to typical Dagestani motiff, but in my opinion contains certain important changes that make it more likely to be produced somewhere to the south, and georgia makes a logical choise.

Concerning christianity - it's very hard to classify Khevsurs, Tsova-Tushin and other mountainous tribes as christian. Pagano-christian, or formally christian would be a better representation. Armenia, just like most of georgian tribes, is more like our understanding of what "christian" means.

[B.I]

back to the helmet, a similar piece in the hermitage. also, to reinforce the dating, this one dates to the same period (but a few years younger). the overall shape does indeed recall an earlier period of ottoman influence, but the shape is also a development of the earlier (and shallower) tartar helmets, as is the decoration.
thanks again to michal for this post and the images from his museum.
i think it down to mr. nordlunde to step onto the stage and provide a translation.

[Rivkin]

It says that the helmet is Circassian. Well, all northern Caucasus helmets (osethian, circassian etc.) seem similar to each other (at least to such an ignoramus as me).

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi B.I., Here is the translation. Although it must have been written after the exhibition in Poland in 1978, it is written in strange Danish.

The helmet belowe comes from the same museum, and the text says, short as it is: Ancient Mogul helmet.

86. Helmet. Circassian, 1785-86. Made by Ali, son of Khadzji Baki. Steel, silver, textile, braid; gilding, Niello, engraving. Height 20.2; diameter 17.1. Origin: prior to 1926 – Marble Palace(?), Leningrad; after 1926 – Eremitage. Inv. No. 3331. Exhibited: Poland, 1978. Bibliography: Bron Kaukazu, page 20, no 5.

The form of the helmet reproduces the types of the Middle Age and the decorations are made in Circassian style. Among the inscriptions which are part of the ornamental composition, the maker Ali, son of Hadzji Baki, is mentioned twice, year 1200 H. (1785-86) and the owner Inajat Krim Girej Bek. It is well known that this type of helmets were part of the parade equipment of the Mountain Lifeguard Squadron around 1840.

[Rivkin]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

86. Helmet. Circassian, 1785-86. Made by Ali, son of Khadzji Baki. Steel, silver, textile, braid; gilding, Niello, engraving. Height 20.2; diameter 17.1. Origin: prior to 1926 – Marble Palace(?), Leningrad; after 1926 – Eremitage. Inv. No. 3331. Exhibited: Poland, 1978. Bibliography: Bron Kaukazu, page 20, no 5.

It's correct - Marble Palace, after 1926 - Hermitage.

Very interesting is attributing the ownership to Inajat Krim Girej Bek.
Does "Krim Girej Bek" mean "Girey, bek of Crimea" ? Then it's most likely that the owner was a crimean tatar (there were crimean circassians, but Girey is a tatar ruling family). The production of helmet then is most likely Kabarda - crimean khans used to send their children to Kabarda to study (atalychestvo).

[Rivkin]

I have to make a small correction - recently I've read some materials on tamga (coat of arms) of circassian clans. It seems that tremendous number of such clans beared tamga symbolizing their descent - typical ingush, osethian, georgian symbols are in no way can be considered as rare for circassian tamgas. Therefore I have to say that it's probably not enough to see an osethian symbol on the above mentioned helmet to attribute it as osethian - it can still be circassian, just bearing a tamge with an "osethian-like" symbol.

Btw I've just realized the name of this symbol - it's a threefoil swastika, so it's not that uncommon with other caucasian nations, but still originally it's more of an osethian one.

To those who love caucasian-celtic connections it's also known as celtic spiral.