Zulu Walking Stick For Comment

Tim Simmons · 21st March 2009, 05:50 PM

Lew after some more thought I am back on the Benin origin.

The fist is sure benin symbol. I can ever show an example on a staff in this thread. Not so with the Buddhist "fist of wisdom" which is actually a two handed gesture, which only may possibly be resented with just a fist? Look at the turned ivory handle on this Mangbetu knife. Surely West Africa, Benin artists could turn materials too. To me it cannot be anything else. Perhaps some Buddhist members might be able to give more information on the fist gesture?

PS, another reason I hope it is what I think it is, because I have this janus mudfish thing.

Tim Simmons · 26th March 2009, 09:40 PM

We have a saying in the UK "you wait all day for a bus then three come along at once"

This; I do not think is "Trench Art" To my mind the carving is very nice and not the product of a soldier passing time. I would suggest that the 303 bullet and casing has been added much latter spoiling a super staff. It went for rather a lot of money too. It could still be a potent sybol of the power of the Oba but the bullet would still be a latter addition which is a problem.

Is there such a thing as WW2 trench art?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...51&_trksid=p39

Lew · 29th March 2009, 02:07 PM

Tim

It seems like the fist symbol gets around. Here is a pic a fist hilted British Mole machete circa 1900-25? that the owner said he picked up in the Philippines but I take that story with a grain of salt. The wire wrap is more African to me.

Tim Simmons · 29th March 2009, 02:24 PM

Fasinating Lew, and I would agree with you African, West African.

Could even be the same wood?

katana · 29th March 2009, 11:30 PM

Hi Tim and Lew

Tim I followed the 'trench art' stick as well....I wondered whether the bullet had talismatic symbolism. The bullet ...a 'taker of life' held in an authoritarian hand .....the power of life and death ???

If you look at the hilt Lew post ...there appears to be a cylindrical object slightly protruding above and below the fist ....perhaps this has meaning? It is not unlikely that this 'cylindrical' motif could have been replaced with the bullet in the 'trench art' example

Possibly making the 'trench art' stick African ...as the machete appears to be.

Regards David

Tim Simmons · 31st March 2009, 06:48 PM

Lew, I know you have turned into a stick man like Freddy and I, possibly others, we must stick together.

I have just taken a punt on this staff which I believe is from the Solomon Islands but it could come from the more prestigous Islands in collector terms too. I cannot tell untill I get it. The other end according to the seller is made of a white material that is cracked. I am sure we are looking at marine ivory. It was half the price of the last link. I am looking for picture to back up my hunch.

Tim Simmons · 31st March 2009, 08:06 PM

I am thinking this sort of work only perhaps a little more mundane. From the Art of Tonga, Hawai university press. Or something like in this link.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...n+island+staff

21st March 2009, 05:50 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Lew after some more thought I am back on the Benin origin. The fist is sure benin symbol. I can ever show an example on a staff in this thread. Not so with the Buddhist "fist of wisdom" which is actually a two handed gesture, which only may possibly be resented with just a fist? Look at the turned ivory handle on this Mangbetu knife. Surely West Africa, Benin artists could turn materials too. To me it cannot be anything else. Perhaps some Buddhist members might be able to give more information on the fist gesture? PS, another reason I hope it is what I think it is, because I have this janus mudfish thing. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 21st March 2009 at 06:19 PM.

29th March 2009, 02:07 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim It seems like the fist symbol gets around. Here is a pic a fist hilted British Mole machete circa 1900-25? that the owner said he picked up in the Philippines but I take that story with a grain of salt. The wire wrap is more African to me. Attached Images

31st March 2009, 06:48 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Lew, I know you have turned into a stick man like Freddy and I, possibly others, we must stick together. I have just taken a punt on this staff which I believe is from the Solomon Islands but it could come from the more prestigous Islands in collector terms too. I cannot tell untill I get it. The other end according to the seller is made of a white material that is cracked. I am sure we are looking at marine ivory. It was half the price of the last link. I am looking for picture to back up my hunch. Attached Images

31st March 2009, 08:06 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	I am thinking this sort of work only perhaps a little more mundane. From the Art of Tonga, Hawai university press. Or something like in this link. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...n+island+staff Attached Images

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26th March 2009, 09:40 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	We have a saying in the UK "you wait all day for a bus then three come along at once" This; I do not think is "Trench Art" To my mind the carving is very nice and not the product of a soldier passing time. I would suggest that the 303 bullet and casing has been added much latter spoiling a super staff. It went for rather a lot of money too. It could still be a potent sybol of the power of the Oba but the bullet would still be a latter addition which is a problem. Is there such a thing as WW2 trench art? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...51&_trksid=p39

29th March 2009, 02:24 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Fasinating Lew, and I would agree with you African, West African. Could even be the same wood?

29th March 2009, 11:30 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim and Lew Tim I followed the 'trench art' stick as well....I wondered whether the bullet had talismatic symbolism. The bullet ...a 'taker of life' held in an authoritarian hand .....the power of life and death ??? If you look at the hilt Lew post ...there appears to be a cylindrical object slightly protruding above and below the fist ....perhaps this has meaning? It is not unlikely that this 'cylindrical' motif could have been replaced with the bullet in the 'trench art' example Possibly making the 'trench art' stick African ...as the machete appears to be. Regards David