A Rare 9th-12th Century Saber

Matchlock · 22nd February 2009, 05:57 PM

Another 9th century East European saber retaining its scabbard, preserved in the Profane Treasury Vienna. Although this had been attributed to such historic persons like Charlemagne or Attila by the romanticism of the 19th century these trials have been renounced of ever since.

Michael

Matchlock · 22nd February 2009, 06:02 PM

Once more, now without the distortion of the blade.

TVV · 22nd February 2009, 07:30 PM

Thank you Michael, this is a lovely sword, exceptionally well preserved and I doubt there is any doubt that it is Magyar indeed. I was able to see it in the Hofburg trasury early this year and tried to take pictures, but since using flash is forbidden, they did not come out too well.

Matchlock · 22nd February 2009, 07:40 PM

Thanks for this color pic, Teodor. It is quite good despite the low light in the Vienna museum.

Michael

Jim McDougall · 24th February 2009, 04:56 PM

This really is a great discussion on these early forms of sabre from these periods and regions. I have seen the 'Charlemagne' sword illustrated and discussed many times, and it had always seemed singular to me until I began seeing examples similar such as those shown here. Like so many other swords in museums with such distinguished attributions, it seems quite lavishly 'dressed' suggesting considerable 'maintainance and care' over the years.

I have always been intrigued by the blade collar as well, whether the 'habaki' (Japanese) or 'tunkou' (Chinese) and how they must have been intended from a practical sense. They seem to be consistant of course on the varying sabre types of the steppes, and I always wondered about the more decorative use of these on yataghans and the association. Once again it is interesting to see the vestigial applications of certain sword elements that no longer serve in thier intended use, but are there just the same......kinda like the portholes from the old Buicks placed stylistically on newer models.

Best regards,
Jim

22nd February 2009, 05:57 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Another 9th century East European saber retaining its scabbard, preserved in the Profane Treasury Vienna. Although this had been attributed to such historic persons like Charlemagne or Attila by the romanticism of the 19th century these trials have been renounced of ever since. Michael Attached Images

22nd February 2009, 06:02 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Once more, now without the distortion of the blade. Attached Images

22nd February 2009, 07:30 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,673	Thank you Michael, this is a lovely sword, exceptionally well preserved and I doubt there is any doubt that it is Magyar indeed. I was able to see it in the Hofburg trasury early this year and tried to take pictures, but since using flash is forbidden, they did not come out too well. Attached Images

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22nd February 2009, 07:40 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thanks for this color pic, Teodor. It is quite good despite the low light in the Vienna museum. Michael

24th February 2009, 04:56 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,506	This really is a great discussion on these early forms of sabre from these periods and regions. I have seen the 'Charlemagne' sword illustrated and discussed many times, and it had always seemed singular to me until I began seeing examples similar such as those shown here. Like so many other swords in museums with such distinguished attributions, it seems quite lavishly 'dressed' suggesting considerable 'maintainance and care' over the years. I have always been intrigued by the blade collar as well, whether the 'habaki' (Japanese) or 'tunkou' (Chinese) and how they must have been intended from a practical sense. They seem to be consistant of course on the varying sabre types of the steppes, and I always wondered about the more decorative use of these on yataghans and the association. Once again it is interesting to see the vestigial applications of certain sword elements that no longer serve in thier intended use, but are there just the same......kinda like the portholes from the old Buicks placed stylistically on newer models. Best regards, Jim