A cup hilted sword rapier for coments

[fernando]

Hi Jim,

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Concerning whether the 'cuphilt' was civilian or military, or both, this is addressed in degree in "The Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820" by A.V.B.Norman, 1980, "...since the cuphilt is apparantly confined to Spain and lands under Spanish influence, that is southern Italy and the Spanish Netherlands ...

I hate to think that a scholar like Mr. Norman is includable in that sort of people who thinks that Portugal was/is one more province of the Spanish Kingdom, therefore not worth to mention as also a country under Spanish domain at the period in question (1580-1640). This omission, together with that of not mentioning that cuphilts were also largely used in Portugal, both in this period as also long afterwards, denote a considerable gap in his work ... says i, within my ignorance .

End of catharsis
Fernando

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Jim,



I hate to think that a scholar like Mr. Norman is includable in that sort of people who thinks that Portugal was/is one more province of the Spanish Kingdom, therefore not worth to mention as also a country under Spanish domain at the period in question (1580-1640). This omission, together with that of not mentioning that cuphilts were also largely used in Portugal, both in this period as also long afterwards, denote a considerable gap in his work ... says i, within my ignorance .

End of catharsis
Fernando

Hi Fernando,
This appears to be one of those times when it would have been preferable to paraphrase rather than quote, and as the late Mr. Norman was a truly great scholar whom I respected deeply, I doubt any oversight in his comments concerning the cuphilt was intentional. I think it is an altogether unfortunate case where his thoughts were likely focused on geographic situation, and perhaps in terms that the link between Spain and Portugal were presumed known by the reader.
Thanks to you I have learned to be very cautious in qualifying such comments and have, as I have often mentioned, learned how extremely important Portugal has been in exploration,colonization and trade, completely independant of Spain. As a very thorough scholar, as I knew him to be, I am sure he would welcome the opportunity to correct this unfortunately worded sentence.
Please accept my apologies for my own oversight in not properly vetting the quote I used.

All very best regards,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

Mark, Jim, thank you very much for your valuable inputs. Very interesting points.
My best regards

Gonzalo

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Please accept my apologies for my own oversight in not properly vetting the quote I used ...

... C'mon Jim ... don't embarass me
As my father used to say to my mum: Olha se tens saúde = just see if you're healthy .
Fernando

[M ELEY]

Thanks, Jim, for confirming my suspicions on that piece possibly being Brazilian. Just had to include this one because it reminds us of the other provinces as well. Maybe someday, that crescent patterning seen on New Spain swords will become more positively identified.

Sorry to have barged in on this thread! Didn't mean to interrupt the conversation concerning civilian vs military dress. I am greatly appreciating this topic and will read on with interest!

[celtan]

As long as it isn't

Olha se tens saúdade


BTW, my own take on the subject is that, evidently as every galego knows, Portugal could not have been a Spanish province, since Spain, Portugal, Nueva Espana, England etc... were all provinces of Galicia.

They just didn't know it.

: )


Now seriously: Unknown origin CH/bilobate sword, possibly north european.







Best

Manuel Luis

Originally Posted by fernando

... C'mon Jim ... don't embarass me
As my father used to say to my mum: Olha se tens saúde = just see if you're healthy .
Fernando

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

Originally Posted by celtan

...... Portugal could not have been a Spanish province, since Spain, Portugal, Nueva Espana, England etc... were all provinces of Galicia.....

An interesting world-view. Ever considered a career in international relations?

Nice swords to have in any collection. Any chance of posting their principal dimensions, including weight and point of balance?

Cheers
Chris

[celtan]

Thanks, and yep, I did. I even had a motto: All bow to me.

Didn't pan out, however, My PR people said it was because the motto was too honest...
: )

Data, as requested:

Wt: 2.1 lb.
Total L: 42.5"
Blade L: 34.5"
W: 1"
CG: 32" from tip, 2.5" from guard.

Toots!

M

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi,



An interesting world-view. Ever considered a career in international relations?

Nice swords to have in any collection. Any chance of posting their principal dimensions, including weight and point of balance?

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

Greatly appreciated.

Sorry to trouble you again, but how far is the guard fom the cross?

Cheers
Chris