Sword from Lombok -- comments please

[RobT]

Here are the images of my sword. Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
RobT

[tom hyle]

Helps me; beautiful
The pinched grip is absolutely no impediment to cutting. In fact, I, and a great many other cooks and hunters, often hold my knives this way, and not only when board-chopping (a motion not much like combat), but when butchering (an action very much like cutting an opponant) as well. In cutting it aids control. It does seem an impediment to parrying. As I've said I don't know how parrying with a k(e)ris fits or doesn't fit into its native culture (and, to elucidate, I do not, for instance, even know the age of the pinchy hold, nor its universality; does anyone?); I just know that it can be done, and done quite nicely; I don't know (waxing repetitive; I'd explain why, but someone might not like the explanation) about its nativeness/traditionality, and have clearly (I hope) said so.

[Ian]

Rob:

Thank you for posting the pictures. Remarkably similar sword to the one I show above. They could almost have come from the same hands. Even the scababrd style is virtually identical. I would say we have a definite style of sword and not an unusual assemblage.

Noting the wear to the wood handle on yours, I wonder whether the handle on mine might be a replacement for a damaged original (hence its different fit to the cup).

Ian.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Ian

Rob:

Thank you for posting the pictures. Remarkably similar sword to the one I show above. They could almost have come from the same hands. Even the scababrd style is virtually identical. I would say we have a definite style of sword and not an unusual assemblage.

Noting the wear to the wood handle on yours, I wonder whether the handle on mine might be a replacement for a damaged original (hence its different fit to the cup).

Ian.

That would be my guess Ian , the only thing that puzzles me is that a replacement for the hilt would be easy to carve to fit . That brings me to the conclusion that the present handle was swapped out rather than a new handle having been carved . I suspect that this was done because of the quality of the wood that the present hilt seems to show .

[Ian]

Yes Rick, that would make sense. Perhaps the handle was originally made for a keris and got swapped over -- would explain the odd fit. Pelet wood is a prestigious material.

Ian.

[Naga Sasra]

Dear fellow forum members,

When I back in post #11 identified the piece as a Cundrik or Sundrik, I didn’t realize that 26 posts later the tread took on its own life so to speak.

We have been all over from a pedang suduk to a panjang, with variations and reshapes thereof.

Ian asked me to expand on the subject which I will be happy to do, I hesitated to bring the photos of Djelenga’s page 101 to the forum as the quality of the photo have a lot to be desired, but I will attach it as bad as it is:



English translation:
Cundrik, Sundrik---Its shape is like a keris without a ganja with a blade that is narrow, straight and rather thick. The scabbard is usually like an elderly person’s stick, however, sometimes it moves towards the shape of a pedang scabbard.

With other words, Djelenga reports that during the second half of the 20th century some people living in Lombok referred to this form of weapon as a Cundrik.

Now keep in mind that names for everything in Indonesia vary from place to place, even from village to village when those villages are only a few miles apart. What a Cundrik should look like can therefore become a matter of interpretation depending on where you are in Indonesia. For example Tammens in volume 3 wrote a lengthy essay as to what a Cundrik should look like, one dictionary simply gives the meaning of a Cundrik as “a short dagger” the meaning can therefore mean different things to different people.

Another thing that we need to incorporate is the fact that the population on Lombok was a mixture of people from other places—Jawa, Sulawesi, Bali—and they brought their own culture to Lombok. The original people to Lombok were the Sasaks, and over time they all blended in together.

The blades used have varied in style and form, from what the picture depicts to cut down pedang blades, sometimes old bayonet blades, sometimes a blade that was obviously a keris blade that had been altered, and this type of mounting was used for a while during the 19th century, and possible early 20th century.

As for the mystery of the handle I will suggest that it was simply replaced at an earlier time, with one that was carved as a Lombok Cundrik handle and available or it was fitted to the end users size of the hand.

[tom hyle]

Thanks. I really like these swords; I like 'em all, dang it!