what is your view on reproductions?

VANDOO · 12th July 2008, 11:53 PM

FROM LOOKING AT THE ITEMS IN THE SANDATA LINK I WOULD CLASSIFY THEM AS MARTIAL ARTS WEAPONS MUCH LIKE THOSE FOR SALE TO PRACTITIONERS OF THE MANY CHINESE FORMS.
USUALLY THESE ARE MADE OF COMERCIAL STEEL AND FORMED USING STOCK REMOVAL THE GRIPS MAY BE SIMPLE OR BEAUTIFUL BUT SHOULD ALWAYS BE STURDY AND GOOD FOR USE IN PRACTICE. THE BALANCE SHOULD BE GOOD AND THEY MAY BE MODIFIED FROM THE ORIGINAL FORM OF THE WEAPON BUT SHOULD BE OF THE PROPER SHAPE AND SIZE AND CAN BE SHARP OR DULL EDGED. THE PRICES SHOULD BE LESS ON THESE AS THEY DO NOT MEET MY STANDARD OF A TRUE REPLICA WHICH SHOULD HAVE AS GOOD TRADITIONAL DETAIL AS AN ORIGINAL. THIS LACK OF PROPER DETAIL AND WORKMANSHIP IS ESPECIALLY EVIDENT ON THE CARVING ON THE KRIS.
SOME OF THE ITEMS COME CLOSER TO THE ORIGINAL FORMS THAN OTHERS AND THEY ALL MAY BE CLOSE ENOUGH TO GET THE FEEL OF THE TYPE OF WEAPON, THEY MAY ALSO MAKE GOOD BUSH KNIVES FOR WORK AS WELL AS TRAINING.
I CONSIDER THE ITEMS I OWN LIKE THESE TO BE RECENT INTERPRETATIONS OF OLDER FORMS AND SOME CROSSING OVER INTO FANTASY KNIVES. THE PRICES WERE REASONABLE BUT IT IS STILL POSSIBLE TO GET A REAL MORO KRIS FOR A REASONABLE PRICE IF YOU ARE NOT ONLY INTERESTED IN DATU GRADE. SO FOR COLLECTING A MORO KRIS OR KAMPILIAN AN ORIGINAL IS BEST BUT FOR TRAINING PERHAPS ONE OF THE MARTIAL ARTS VARIETY IS BEST.

Dom · 13th July 2008, 12:51 AM

what it's new today, will be old tomorrow
ALL ours antics, have been new one day .....

also, could be nice to define the term of "antic"
how many years old .. minimum

the first one said more than 60 is a DEAD MAN

à +

Dom

Rick · 13th July 2008, 02:03 AM

Now just a second Here !!
I'm 61 and still kicking .

For me it has always been 100 years for an item to be judged 'Antique' .

Bill M · 13th July 2008, 02:22 AM

Hey Rick,

We 60+ guys traditionally call each other "young man!" I'll be 65 on Halloween, but I feel like a 35 year old.

As far as reproductions, I bought a pile of Indian weapons supposedly made by descendants of the guys who have been making them a thousand years or so.

Anyone remember "Shah Jahans?" I have their whole inventory. Now, you must realize that these were all made in the previous century.

ariel · 13th July 2008, 03:49 AM

I fully agree with Jim.
For me, the joy of owning an old piece is owning its history: they, after all, were used for the intended "Cold Steel" purposes.
Reproductions are just pieces of metal shaped in the form of an old sword, but they are devoid of context.
They are very useful for training and decoration of dens in the houses sporting mass-produced copies of famous paintings. Ughh.....

Lew · 13th July 2008, 04:01 AM

Ariel

Many of the forum members here study Philippine martial arts so if you are doing a martial arts demo (cutting test) would you use a prized antique or would you be more inclined towards using a properly forged and sharpened new sword? These types of weapons such as the traditional Philippine swords/bolos are perfect for this purpose. Everything has it's place so I see nothing wrong with adding a few newer pieces to ones collection of antiques to mess around with as long as they are made in the same way as the old ones.

Lew

ariel · 13th July 2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Ariel

Many of the forum members here study Philippine martial arts so if you are doing a martial arts demo (cutting test) would you use a prized antique or would you be more inclined towards using a properly forged and sharpened new sword? These types of weapons such as the traditional Philippine swords/bolos are perfect for this purpose. Everything has it's place so I see nothing wrong with adding a few newer pieces to ones collection of antiques to mess around with as long as they are made in the same way as the old ones.

Lew

That's exactly what I meant by "training". Sorry if I did not express myself clearly.

Dom · 13th July 2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

I see nothing wrong with adding a few newer pieces to ones collection of antiques to mess around with as long as they are made in the same way as the old ones.Lew

or even, to complete from a part of a weapon or armor

e.i.
- the sterling silver handle is 40 years old from KSA
- the blade is over than 100 years - Pouluar Afgan XIXth century, from a french scraping store
- the scabbard is less than 3 years from Damascus Syria done by a real swordsmith
so, it's not an antiquity, but .... not a new copy

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=tale

anyway, it's one of my favorite item, with my kulah-khud

à +

Dom

Jim McDougall · 13th July 2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Now just a second Here !!
I'm 61 and still kicking .

For me it has always been 100 years for an item to be judged 'Antique' .

Right on Rick!!!!
I worked for the airlines for nearly 40 years, retired last year, and remember one day about 7 years ago, we were sending out a Boeing 727 on its last flight, on its way to the desert. The young guy working with me commented it was sad to see this faithful plane going away to the desert.......I noted to him, yeah, worse for me though, I remember when they were new!!

Been 'dodgin' bullets for lots a years now', looks like I'm gonna make 63 ..next month!!! Thats why I like the patinated, worn old warriors.....they're just like me

13th July 2008, 02:22 AM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Hey Rick, We 60+ guys traditionally call each other "young man!" I'll be 65 on Halloween, but I feel like a 35 year old. As far as reproductions, I bought a pile of Indian weapons supposedly made by descendants of the guys who have been making them a thousand years or so. Anyone remember "Shah Jahans?" I have their whole inventory. Now, you must realize that these were all made in the previous century. Attached Images

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12th July 2008, 11:53 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	FROM LOOKING AT THE ITEMS IN THE SANDATA LINK I WOULD CLASSIFY THEM AS MARTIAL ARTS WEAPONS MUCH LIKE THOSE FOR SALE TO PRACTITIONERS OF THE MANY CHINESE FORMS. USUALLY THESE ARE MADE OF COMERCIAL STEEL AND FORMED USING STOCK REMOVAL THE GRIPS MAY BE SIMPLE OR BEAUTIFUL BUT SHOULD ALWAYS BE STURDY AND GOOD FOR USE IN PRACTICE. THE BALANCE SHOULD BE GOOD AND THEY MAY BE MODIFIED FROM THE ORIGINAL FORM OF THE WEAPON BUT SHOULD BE OF THE PROPER SHAPE AND SIZE AND CAN BE SHARP OR DULL EDGED. THE PRICES SHOULD BE LESS ON THESE AS THEY DO NOT MEET MY STANDARD OF A TRUE REPLICA WHICH SHOULD HAVE AS GOOD TRADITIONAL DETAIL AS AN ORIGINAL. THIS LACK OF PROPER DETAIL AND WORKMANSHIP IS ESPECIALLY EVIDENT ON THE CARVING ON THE KRIS. SOME OF THE ITEMS COME CLOSER TO THE ORIGINAL FORMS THAN OTHERS AND THEY ALL MAY BE CLOSE ENOUGH TO GET THE FEEL OF THE TYPE OF WEAPON, THEY MAY ALSO MAKE GOOD BUSH KNIVES FOR WORK AS WELL AS TRAINING. I CONSIDER THE ITEMS I OWN LIKE THESE TO BE RECENT INTERPRETATIONS OF OLDER FORMS AND SOME CROSSING OVER INTO FANTASY KNIVES. THE PRICES WERE REASONABLE BUT IT IS STILL POSSIBLE TO GET A REAL MORO KRIS FOR A REASONABLE PRICE IF YOU ARE NOT ONLY INTERESTED IN DATU GRADE. SO FOR COLLECTING A MORO KRIS OR KAMPILIAN AN ORIGINAL IS BEST BUT FOR TRAINING PERHAPS ONE OF THE MARTIAL ARTS VARIETY IS BEST.

13th July 2008, 12:51 AM	#2
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	what it's new today, will be old tomorrow ALL ours antics, have been new one day ..... also, could be nice to define the term of "antic" how many years old .. minimum the first one said more than 60 is a DEAD MAN à + Dom

13th July 2008, 02:03 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Now just a second Here !! I'm 61 and still kicking . For me it has always been 100 years for an item to be judged 'Antique' .

13th July 2008, 03:49 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I fully agree with Jim. For me, the joy of owning an old piece is owning its history: they, after all, were used for the intended "Cold Steel" purposes. Reproductions are just pieces of metal shaped in the form of an old sword, but they are devoid of context. They are very useful for training and decoration of dens in the houses sporting mass-produced copies of famous paintings. Ughh.....

13th July 2008, 04:01 AM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ariel Many of the forum members here study Philippine martial arts so if you are doing a martial arts demo (cutting test) would you use a prized antique or would you be more inclined towards using a properly forged and sharpened new sword? These types of weapons such as the traditional Philippine swords/bolos are perfect for this purpose. Everything has it's place so I see nothing wrong with adding a few newer pieces to ones collection of antiques to mess around with as long as they are made in the same way as the old ones. Lew