BANGKINANG & BAHARI kerises?

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

From the viewpoint of an Oerang Soenda:

- based only on length; yes, the short one (LHS) can be called 'bahari' and the longer one (RHS) a 'Bangkinang'

- the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back'). So it was straight (no eloeks/waves) and concentrated more on steel content than pamor/damascene patterns). Also, the Bangkinang did not have a tonggong/back-bone). Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation.

Best.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

... the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back'). So it was straight (no eloeks/waves) and concentrated more on steel content than pamor/damascene patterns). Also, the Bangkinang did not have a tonggong/back-bone). Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation.

Sumuhun (thanks -- in Soenda dialect), kang Amuk... Once again I post pics of the blades but without hilt. The pesi (or 'bedor' in your term) of the longer keris is not flat as you mentioned. But round -- though bigger than the normal kerises, even a bit bigger than Balinese blade (but not longer).

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

The Malays of Sumatra & Peninsula call these dapors as keris Penyalang. Some would simply call them keris Panjang.

BTW, are the hilts original to the blade, or are they much later additions? I never saw this type of hilt in a keris Penyalang / Panjang before.

Dear Penangsang, the hilt belongs to the longer one. It is not ivory, but perhaps old 'duyung' teeth. I got the 'keris panjang' with such hilt (keris Bangkinang in Javanese term -- Bangkinang is a name of a small place in the southwest of Pekanbaru Riau, Sumatera to the direction of Padang, Sumatera Barat. This place, believed to be the 'origin' of such keris model or at least popularized from this place before 19th century). The style of sheath is Palembang, but the wooden "gandar" (blade section sheath) is no more original. Maybe broken, and changed with trembalo wood gandar..

[sukuh]

Dear Ganjawulung,

On several occasions I heard people talk about the "executionerskeris" when the subject was bangkinang.
Please tell me, do you think that remark is plausible or just a story?

thanks Sukuh

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by sukuh

On several occasions I heard people talk about the "executionerskeris" when the subject was bangkinang.
Please tell me, do you think that remark is plausible or just a story?

Dear Sukuh, I think David van Duuren has written on this matter in his book, The Kris (1996, 1998). Please page 87,

"... the slender and straight keris panjang, or 'long kris', which also used for executions. One of those executions was described by a Dutch eyewitness. The prisoner crouched on the ground, his back to the executioner. Below his left shoulder was glued a thick wad of cotton fluff, the 'rose'. When the moment had come, the executioner attacked with a swift and perfect thrust, penetrating straignt through the back and into the heart. Death was instantaneous; the cotton absorbed the small quantity of flowing blood...,"

"In earlier days, execution by the kris was, in Indonesia, to some degree considered a 'good dead'; it was much more dignified than simply having one's head cut off...,"

[sukuh]

In earlier days, execution by the kris was, in Indonesia, to some degree considered a 'good dead'; it was much more dignified than simply having one's head cut off...

Dear Ganjawulung,

If I had to choose I would prefer that method too...
So, correct me if I'm wrong, bangkinang was used for that purpose but not specialy made for it, as I was told..?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by sukuh

So, correct me if I'm wrong, bangkinang was used for that purpose but not specialy made for it, as I was told..?

Dear Sukuh, I suppose you are correct. As does the writer of "The Kris" book: ..."which also used for executions...," So, the "executioner kris" is not only for executing dead penalty, but also for other purposes...

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo again,

I was in a hurry before and made a mistake.
Assuming a bedor/paksi/tang of 12-13cm., both blades can be called 'Bangkinang' based on length only.
Also:
Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.
But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.

About keris executions:

Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris.
Execution was done from the back.

With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

Best

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

...Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Yes, it has a kind of "tikel alis" shaped like an inverted comma near the gandhik. I will post the clearer pics later tommorrow. The blade is too heavily etched with warangan...

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

I am not sure, whether this is a Peninsular version or keris "Jawa Wetan" as you just mentioned. And the shorter keris, I don't think the shorter is javanese kind.The form of "greneng" is not javanese at all. Usually, javanese kerises have "dha" form greneng (like "dha" character in javanese alphabet). And this not.

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.
About keris executions:
Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris. Execution was done from the back.
With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

That's what I meant, Kang Amuk. Dugong tusk ivory... Thank you for the useful information on "keris penyalang"...

Ganjawulung

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Picture from the gandik part of the blade. Like an inverted comma...

[VVV]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

...the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back')...Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation.

I have heard this claimed before, but developed for the navy.
Do you have any source for this claim as I would like to know more about it?

I have never seen any panjang/penyalang with flat tang but that's maybe because I haven't examined any Javanese???

Michael

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by VVV

I have heard this claimed before, but developed for the navy.
Do you have any source for this claim as I would like to know more about it?

I have never seen any panjang/penyalang with flat tang but that's maybe because I haven't examined any Javanese???

Michael

Hullo Michael,

I was talking about the Bangkinang keris. At the time, Bangkinang was an even smaller place then it is today. It was a very isolated place (dense vegetation etc.) and formed one of the 'rantau'/outer-regions of the Minang empire (similar to the 'kejawen' areas of the Jawa empire). Most travelling was done on horseback.I don't believe it would've had a navy, so I don't know what navy you mean..
Perhaps I used the wrong words: '......the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back')...Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation...'.
I meant that the shape was influenced by the rapier and its length more suited for horse-back. Also, I meant that the tang was round, but that only a section of it had been flattened (e.g. in the middle or at the tip).
(BTW ... traditionally, tangs were not always round. They could be helical-twisted, rectangular, with a hole at the tip etc.)
Since the Bangkinang became popular throughout the region, it also became imitated by local smiths, who may or may not have followed it's protocol.
As for sources,what can I say? I am neither an expert nor an academic, so I don't file/document everything. What I know and believe, I have picked up along the way (especially during my time spent under the tutelage of elders at my kaboejoetan (centre for heritage/tradition).
Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable on the Minang Pagar Roejoeng empire will give you answers.

Best.