new find (seem like betok)

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

That's a nice little keris, Ferry. I don't think we can call it a betok, though. Betok are usually considered to be a bit more broad across. To me, it looks like it might have been made simply as a short keris, or maybe shortened during its life.

I would not be confident to comment of the quality of the iron just from a photograph.

Tell me, can you give us a photo of the top of the gonjo?

here we go...
the gonjo part.
This is the best picture I can show to you.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sorry Ferry, its not really good enough.

Tell me, is the buntut urang nguceng mati ?

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Sorry Ferry, its not really good enough.

Tell me, is the buntut urang nguceng mati ?

the buntut urang is 3mm wide.

[A. G. Maisey]

OK---thanks.

What tangguh do you think it might be?

Its too hard to guess from the pics. Its not a typical form and the proportions are peculiar. If you can lay a supportable tangguh onto it, you might be able to form an opinion as to whether it was made like this, or it has been shortened.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

OK---thanks.

What tangguh do you think it might be?

Its too hard to guess from the pics. Its not a typical form and the proportions are peculiar. If you can lay a supportable tangguh onto it, you might be able to form an opinion as to whether it was made like this, or it has been shortened.

I would say its tuban, for the thickness of the keris.
has been shortened??? if only it has been shortened, then it might also been re shape though???

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, it looks a bit Tubanishy, but I can't see if the sirah cecak is the right shape---looks a bit that way, but you really need to look straight down on it. A Tuban buntut urang is not quite nguceng mati, but it sure isn't nyebit rontal---its a straight,heavy, pretty ugly gonjo that looks like the tail has been cut off, which results in it looking like a shortened nguceng mati---that is, if it was longer, it would be.
However the iron looks too black for Tuban. The Pawakan will be more or less ovoid if its Tuban.
This blade seems to have some Tuban characteristics, but as always, its a bit hard to tell from a photo.
Yeah, I'd say it could have been reshaped---the pawakan is out of balance---see the way it tends to sort of lean forward, but its not really leaning forward? Proportion and balance is wrong.
But even so, its still not a real bad thing--- it all depends on whether you like it or not, and how much you paid for it. You'd be surprised at some of my favourite keris.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yeah, it looks a bit Tubanishy, but I can't see if the sirah cecak is the right shape---looks a bit that way, but you really need to look straight down on it. A Tuban buntut urang is not quite nguceng mati, but it sure isn't nyebit rontal---its a straight,heavy, pretty ugly gonjo that looks like the tail has been cut off, which results in it looking like a shortened nguceng mati---that is, if it was longer, it would be.
However the iron looks too black for Tuban. The Pawakan will be more or less ovoid if its Tuban.
This blade seems to have some Tuban characteristics, but as always, its a bit hard to tell from a photo.
Yeah, I'd say it could have been reshaped---the pawakan is out of balance---see the way it tends to sort of lean forward, but its not really leaning forward? Proportion and balance is wrong.
But even so, its still not a real bad thing--- it all depends on whether you like it or not, and how much you paid for it. You'd be surprised at some of my favourite keris.

the"pijetan" looks suspicious to me.
basicly, I do not hate reshape kerises.
but like every body else, I prefer an original piece.
I do have a doubt at this moment.
Thanks a lot for your comments...

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A Tuban buntut urang is not quite nguceng mati, but it sure isn't nyebit rontal---its a straight,heavy, pretty ugly gonjo that looks like the tail has been cut off, which results in it looking like a shortened nguceng mati---that is, if it was longer, it would be.

Alan, i realize that you are communicating to Ferry in terms that you think he will best understand, but i, for one, am not too proud to admit that i don't really understand these terms and i suspect that there may be others who also don't. Can these characteristics be described in English?